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Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

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Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#491
post #470

At a larger scale of things given what Bitcoin just made possible and what it's trying to disrupt (decentralized, uncensored), Bitcoin is literally just 12 years old and I feel these judgements are too harsh and too soon for something which is still yet to be adopted or even understood by 95% of the population. The benefits of Bitcoin can truly be appreciated or judged once the tech has been adopted in a relatively l…

> 12 years old

> too soon

In today's terms, a decade of existing but somewhat mediocre results means it's time to move on. It's already proven useful; at the same time, already proven non-disruptive/revolutionary.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#492
post #480

What's bad for the planet is how decades of individual work output in money can be confiscated (by printing and inflation, not taxation) by the Government under the pretense of doing good. What's bizarre is that the Government is not affected by market forces while the rest of us plebs are forced to be efficient lest we lose to competition. Note: when I say confiscation, I mean money printing and not taxes (which wil…

What of the social contract? The dystopia I see in your words: government as an efficient service provider providing for and competing for the patronage of the ultra-wealthy holders of cryptocurrency: the monopoly on force is broken because wealth is forever exempt. Socialized, societal wealth of all forms - roads, healthcare, police, defense - discarded. The underclass of every nation left without recourse to the po…

Yep. There's a reasonable argument to be made that the decline in the Western Roman Empire's ability to raise taxes led in part to feudalism and the decline of cities and the transformation of rural peasantry into serfs. Authoritarian landholders and aristocratic armies replaced an (admittedly oppressive but also moderately concerned with some social welfare) organized state.

The state is a double-edged sword for sure. But denying its ability to raise revenues seems like a great way to hasten dystopia.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#495
Bitcoin seems like a huge Ponzi scheme, just with any other Ponzi scheme, its adopters fiercely fighting and trying to silence anyone who dares to utter anything opposing it. Bitcoin as it stands today has potential to destroy all the gains we have made in clean energy and bringing zero carbon offsets. Bill gates is right that it is massively inefficient in what is supposed to be doing. That is doing transactions. Just like previous bubble runs this Bitcoin bull run again will die down, with many of same people holding this worthless bag.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With bitcoin, you are paying for security. I know if I send you a bitcoin transaction there is a high probability it won't be reverted in our lifetime, possibly ever. I'm not a maxi but these new projects don't have that guarantee yet; likely they never will.

This is repeatedly cited delusional conclusion. The reality is that consensus only requires people to agree on something. It does not require burning tons of energy or military action. Prisoner's dilemma is only a thing if you consider finite games, ie. played for your immediate benefit. If you consider an infinite game (for example the good and survival of humanity in perpetuity), it can be clearly shown that there…

People will ALWAYS cheat others given the chance, and especially when facing very little online repercussions. I am not sure who you were replying to here. I do live in a small community, I have relied on a few others for survival, and I have been both stolen from, and price gouged due to others who would try to make skin off my back. I assume you've got less real life experience in these matters. I live on the basis of trusting nobody else but a very select few and being very self sufficient and reliant. I grow hundreds of pounds of my own vegetables, for instance, and I would seldom ever buy vegetables from a store throughout the season. Least of all, my trust in government. Most who initially got into bitcoin very early on did so for libertarian values towards government and monetary systems. I can really assure you that most of us who got into Bitcoin in 2010 did NOT do so because we initially thought we were getting lucratively rich or having thoughts we were selling assets to folks for a higher price just to get out. No, we got into Bitcoin because we see USD fiat paper as trash cash that is ever losing value and is backed by nothing but a phony government system. Used to keep people poor, used for financial control.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm old and in the same boat as you, for many years now. I haven't been to a cash machine in years, because maybe once a year I get someone who wants to pay me in cash for something, so that just becomes my "bank" for the year. I use so little cash that just one person paying me for their part of a nice meal is enough for the entire year. Even the vendors on the side of the road prefer Venmo/PayPal now.

Hell, aside from recurring bills, I put everything on credit and then pay it off within the week. That way I get cashback rewards, build credit and can ensure I have the peace of mind of being able to pay for anything at the time of transaction without worrying about shifting money between accounts or where I am in the pay cycle. It also ensures that, due to building my credit score, I have ample credit at my disposa…

Those 1% cash back rewards cost everybody you buy from 3%

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#498
post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans As opposed to elephants or sea urchins? How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems? The Buddha taught there are three kinds of dukkha [usually translated as “suffering”]. The first kind is physical and mental pain from the inevitable stresses of life like old age, sickness, and death. The second is the distress we feel as a result of imperm…

> How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems? That's a pretty good indicator of a civilization's state. For an advanced one, the answer to your question would be "it's nowhere near the top worries". All human-made horrors (war, climate change, etc.) would be left far behind. If we were as smart as we think we are, our biggest problems would be rogue asteroids, solar storms and aggressive aliens, not…

I'm not sure I buy that. There's not any proof that a more advanced civilization exists. Even if we assume that one does exist, why does it follow that they are immune to war, oppression, power struggles etc? The only data point we have suggests otherwise.

Or maybe the aliens are all holding hands in a circle singing kumbayah?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#499
post #482

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a big risk. But, to answer your second question, its a public ledger. Its significantly more conducive to surveillance than cash. Just punish people if they send money to an unverified address. I think that's a gross possibility, and I hope no governments take this measure, but I don't think it would be difficult.

I don't disagree with you, I just don't personally believe that it will become a major instrument of trade due to it removing a major component of economic policy. I believe that most countries would rather have their citizens use their national currency as opposed to a foreign or electronic one, since that allows them a lot more control on inflation. From that perspective, it seems to follow that most governments wo…

I don't really know either. Maybe you're right, but as a (maybe ridiculous) counterpoint, what benefit does it give a government to have their own currency? I think the main benefit is not having to rely on another government to keep it stable... or to avoid the subservience that follows from having to rely on acquiring said currency from another government. For most countries now practically I think this means 'not giving the US complete control over our politics and not having to buy USD from them'.

Are there any other benefits? If not, wouldn't adopting bitcoin be an easy solution to monetary policy while avoiding this issue? Or am I missing something?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#500
post #470

At a larger scale of things given what Bitcoin just made possible and what it's trying to disrupt (decentralized, uncensored), Bitcoin is literally just 12 years old and I feel these judgements are too harsh and too soon for something which is still yet to be adopted or even understood by 95% of the population. The benefits of Bitcoin can truly be appreciated or judged once the tech has been adopted in a relatively l…

Curious to know if any work on PoS is being done for Bitcoin.

To be honest, I'm curious to know about this as well! Haven't read anything on this but I wonder at times how is the core Bitcoin team looking at what's happening with PoS and deciding "Nope. This tech is good for 200 more years". I guess time will tell.

The inability to move / be more versatile is the reason why Ethereum came to be in the first place. I guess Bitcoin's main USP is "You can be sure Bitcoin will be Bitcoin as you know it for a long time".

Also there's one section of the community that thinks Bitcoin mining will actually help move to greener tech faster since it incentivizes you do so.

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