Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#431

Post by brauhaus » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

mekoka wrote: post #272

“Bitcoin uses more electricity per transaction than any other method known to mankind, and so it’s not a great climate thing” That's the sole actual quote attributed to Bill Gates in that article (which doesn't even link to any source). The rest is the author conflating their thoughts with Bill Gates's.

This is the only comment that matters. This article is merely an opinion piece with a factually fake click bate-y headline, aimed to rile people up instead of inspiring thoughtful conversation.

It's one of those article we point to when we complain about the media's lack of credibility.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#432

Post by adolph » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

delaaxe wrote: post #414

jk7tarYZAQNpTQa wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems? That's a pretty good indicator of a civilization's state. For an advanced one, the answer to your question would be "it's nowhere near the top worries". All human-made horrors (war, climate change, etc.) would be left far behind. If we were as smart as we think we are, our biggest problems would be rogue asteroids, solar storms and aggressive aliens, not…

By default, nature is an aggressive and competitive environment. It's only after we barricaded ourselves in towers protected by walls that we started to find predatory animals cute (and even made children's toys in their image)

What is nature different from the environment? Is nature not the environment? Is it truly aggressive and competitive or does it seek balance and evolution, or maybe it is and does not seek? Does applying those adjectives personify and build emotion into nature where none exists?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#433

Post by natenthe » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

If you want to make valid comparisons, compare the energy usage of Bitcoin (and other blockchain-based solutions) to the energy usage of the current fiat system (with all its banks and other financial services companies). Plus, it is a fact that the majority of energy used to mine Bitcoin is renewable.

Let's be honest. It is obvious that the majority of HN users are anti-Bitcoin for a few reasons:

1) They see early adopters profiting mightily and have a zero-sum, envious mindset.

2) Silicon Valley promotes centralization. People have invested their careers in organizations that promote the centralization of the internet and technology, and Bitcoin is a threat to that.

3) Silicon Valley, once teeming with innovation because of diversity of though, is now completely monolithic in thought. The powers-that-be (i.e. Bill Gates, among others) are anti-Bitcoin, as it threatens their centralized power, and so Bitcoin has become out of fashion in Silicon Valley.

4) Politics. Bitcoin is decentralized and empowers those that privately and independently own it and transact with it. This is generally a libertarian concept. Silicon Valley, being very politically on the left, realizes that the independence that Bitcoin brings goes against their ethos of governmental and bureaucratic control. You cannot "cancel" or prevent someone you don't like from using the Bitcoin network - even if you disagree with them.

HN used to be great, in my opinion, and I hope things improve. My comments are sincere.

Now, prepare for my comment to get censored by a flood of downvotes in 1, 2, 3...

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#434

Post by BTCOG » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

HideousKojima wrote: post #45

burkaman wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't Ethereum have the same environmental issues?

Ethereum is supposedly changing over to proof of stake, but it's been a years long process

Love that username! XD

Yes, Ethereum has been working towards several long-tail projects for years. I think it's more important to distinguish that nothing good or important has come of Ethereum though, and that it is NOT money, and it is not a safe currency. The blockchain is fraught with front-ran txs, the mining is very centralized, and all projects atop ETH suffer dependency on it's success. The blockchain is growing very large which leads to further centralization on very expensive customized equipment. DeFi is a buzzword that means little but "super alpha experimental money leveraging tools" and financial instruments on the cutting edge. Ethereum is Dave & Busters tokens in comparison to Bitcoin being real money.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#435

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:08 PM UTC

tyrust wrote: post #307

mekoka wrote: post #272

“Bitcoin uses more electricity per transaction than any other method known to mankind, and so it’s not a great climate thing” That's the sole actual quote attributed to Bill Gates in that article (which doesn't even link to any source). The rest is the author conflating their thoughts with Bill Gates's.

It's truly a pointless article, but that hasn't stopped tens of people from spitting out the same arguments about bitcoin that you see in every HN thread.

[deleted]

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#436

Post by Godel_unicode » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

soledades wrote: post #392

xkjkls wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or just hunger in general. Before the agriculture revolution starvation was the primary cause of human death.

This is incorrect: > "The bones of 'domiciled' Homo sapiens compared with those of hunter-gatherers are also distinctive: they are smaller; the bones and teeth often bear the signature of nutritional distress, in particular, an iron-deficiency anemia marked above all in women of reproductive age whose diets consist increasingly of grains" from Against the Grain see also: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3…

Mineral deficiency is a chronic lack of a particular nutrient, starvation is an acute lack.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#437

Post by blondie9x » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:09 PM UTC

kitcar wrote: post #11

Bitcoin is an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). It's that old SF-trope that the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans.

I am not against cryptocurrencies but I am against the wasted energy of Bitcoin. It needs to be regulated globally now. This is terrible to use more energy than Argentina to pay someone. https://www.statista.com/statistics/881541/bitcoin-energy-co...

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#438

Post by mancerayder » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

kitcar wrote: post #11

Bitcoin is an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). It's that old SF-trope that the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans.

Not a bitcoin fanboy, but that's a bit strong a statement. What is "greed" versus motivation for innovation? Is innovation rewarded with (taxed, regulated) wealth greed, and if so, is that "bad"? And if it creates Teslas and rockets that land, and robots on Mars that last a year or more analyzing samples, is it a fatal flaw?

Some more questions... So let's say BTC is greed - the many financial instruments out there, derivatives, credit default swaps, funds of funds, the crazy options stuff going on ... and you drew the line at BTC?

"It's that old SF-trope that the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans."

Fitting for a city known today for its vast outdoor tent cities of homelessness.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#439

Post by josefx » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:10 PM UTC

jjtheblunt wrote: post #252

adolph wrote: post #210

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans As opposed to elephants or sea urchins? How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems? The Buddha taught there are three kinds of dukkha [usually translated as “suffering”]. The first kind is physical and mental pain from the inevitable stresses of life like old age, sickness, and death. The second is the distress we feel as a result of imperm…

i suspect the assertion was thought of as "nowadays", whereas 150 years ago infectious disease might have been humanity's biggest problem.

Wasn't penicillin a major breakthrough not even 100 years ago?

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#440

Post by redwall_hp » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 6:11 PM UTC

jedberg wrote: post #302

meowkit wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone. Honestly don’t know if you’re trolling or just old. I used paper money once last year. To buy weed. Because the federal government has determined I am not responsible enough to use or own weed. No one I know uses physical cash anymore. We’re moving away from physical items where possible, not toward it. I would rather have my currency on a public DLT than cont…

I'm old and in the same boat as you, for many years now. I haven't been to a cash machine in years, because maybe once a year I get someone who wants to pay me in cash for something, so that just becomes my "bank" for the year. I use so little cash that just one person paying me for their part of a nice meal is enough for the entire year. Even the vendors on the side of the road prefer Venmo/PayPal now.

Hell, aside from recurring bills, I put everything on credit and then pay it off within the week. That way I get cashback rewards, build credit and can ensure I have the peace of mind of being able to pay for anything at the time of transaction without worrying about shifting money between accounts or where I am in the pay cycle. It also ensures that, due to building my credit score, I have ample credit at my disposal in an emergency situation. And, of course, the antifraud benefits are immeasurable.