Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet • Hacker News Board

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#251

Post by Jleagle » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

saalweachter wrote: post #220

jetpackjoe wrote: post #9

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

You know what actually bothers me the most about all crypto-currencies? None of them are actually money, like in the paper-or-gold-coin sense. They're all ledgers. The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone . Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done. T…

I'm not an export but i can print off a wallet key and give it to someone, on paper or usb. Sure i can give that same wallet to someone else but it's pretty quick to check the value of a wallet before accepting it.

Why do you even need physical cash? I can carry my countries currency around with me easily enough but i generally don't bother as i don't ever need to.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#252

Post by jjtheblunt » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

adolph wrote: post #210

kitcar wrote: post #11

Bitcoin is an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). It's that old SF-trope that the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans.

> the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans As opposed to elephants or sea urchins? How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems? The Buddha taught there are three kinds of dukkha [usually translated as “suffering”]. The first kind is physical and mental pain from the inevitable stresses of life like old age, sickness, and death. The second is the distress we feel as a result of imperm…

i suspect the assertion was thought of as "nowadays", whereas 150 years ago infectious disease might have been humanity's biggest problem.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#253

Post by meowkit » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

saalweachter wrote: post #220

jetpackjoe wrote: post #9

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

You know what actually bothers me the most about all crypto-currencies? None of them are actually money, like in the paper-or-gold-coin sense. They're all ledgers. The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone . Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done. T…

> The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone.

Honestly don’t know if you’re trolling or just old.

I used paper money once last year. To buy weed. Because the federal government has determined I am not responsible enough to use or own weed.

No one I know uses physical cash anymore. We’re moving away from physical items where possible, not toward it. I would rather have my currency on a public DLT than controlled by the government.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#254

Post by airza » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

adolph wrote: post #210

kitcar wrote: post #11

Bitcoin is an almost perfect exploitation of humanities fatal flaws (greed, unwillingness to acknowledge externalities - i.e. selfishness). It's that old SF-trope that the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans.

> the cause of many of humanity's biggest problems is humans As opposed to elephants or sea urchins? How can humans not be the cause humanity's biggest problems? The Buddha taught there are three kinds of dukkha [usually translated as “suffering”]. The first kind is physical and mental pain from the inevitable stresses of life like old age, sickness, and death. The second is the distress we feel as a result of imperm…

As opposed to other externally-caused problems like natural disasters, beating eaten by lions, etc. I would guess that a large chunk of human history was dominated by these problems.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#255

Post by svachalek » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

saalweachter wrote: post #220

jetpackjoe wrote: post #9

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

You know what actually bothers me the most about all crypto-currencies? None of them are actually money, like in the paper-or-gold-coin sense. They're all ledgers. The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone . Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done. T…

With money though there's still someone who needs to make it "money". It's printed, its supply is controlled, its integrity is enforced. Otherwise it's just paper with numbers on it.

With crypto all of this is taken care of by the network, and with the truly decentralized networks (not all of them are) anyone can be part of the network. No one "owns" the ledger. In my mind this has successfully created something that is more free (as in speech) than any previous form of "money" other than gold.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#256

Post by rfd4sgmk8u » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

superbcarrot wrote: post #189

wbobeirne wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What defines a currency being "better" than another? Is it number of transactions? Is it acceptance among merchants? Is it low fees? Is it stability in purchasing power? Is it likelihood that there will be a fatal flaw in the system that causes financial loss? Every project has its own strengths and weaknesses, but it's hard to argue that Bitcoin isn't the best on many of those measures. It's all about which of them…

> but it's hard to argue that Bitcoin isn't the best on many of those measures Seems pretty easy to me. What is Bitcoin best at apart from having the largest market cap?

* Longest running network.

* Largest network by nodes.

* Largest network hashrate / Most energy consumed.

* Simple Satoshi Codebase.

* Most accessible - blockchain delivered via satellite!

* One can run a node on a RPi. Requires 351G storage for full chain. Eth is TB's (and growing), requires SSD, fast CPU, etc.

You are not running ETH nodes at home.

* Most decentralized

* Most reliable

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#257

Post by ForHackernews » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

Shorel wrote: post #222

nelsontodd wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is silly. Consensus (probably, I am doubtful of PoS) isn't free. You get a choice between bitcoin mining and military force. Which do you find less harmful? Edit: I should clarify. I am saying that the status of the USD as a reserve currency has led to lots of US military action.

Proof of Work vs Proof of Violence.

Well, technically you only need the threat of violence. Potential-but-unrealized violence is arguably much better for humanity than proof-of-ever-escalating wasted energy.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#258

Post by jetpackjoe » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

saalweachter wrote: post #220

jetpackjoe wrote: post #9

There are so many better crypto-currencies. Better for the environment because they use proof-of-stake, and not proof-of-work. Better for users because transactions are confirmed in seconds, not hours, and without the ridiculous fees that Bitcoin has. I think this shows how truly powerful the network effect, and being first to market is. Because without those things, Bitcoin would be nothing.

You know what actually bothers me the most about all crypto-currencies? None of them are actually money, like in the paper-or-gold-coin sense. They're all ledgers. The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone . Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done. T…

> The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone. Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done.

Fiat is also moving in this direction. Credit cards, are just exchanging bits, and in Asia, with Alipay and WeChat pay you are just scanning QR codes. At least with (good) crypto currencies is you can remove the third-party from the equation.

There still remains the problem of having your transaction broadcast to the entire network, but I think that is also a solvable problem.

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#259

Post by savaka » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

In 2019, the US economy consumed 100 quadrillion BTUs[0], which works out to about 29,000 TWh. Bitcoin currently uses ~78 TWh[1]. Bitcoin isn't the problem.

[0]https://www.eia.gov/totalenergy/data/flow-graphs/total-energ...

[1]https://digiconomist.net/bitcoin-energy-consumption

Re: Bill Gates Says that Bitcoin is bad For the Planet

#260

Post by MattGaiser » Mon, Mar 08, 2021, 5:10 PM UTC

meowkit wrote: post #253

saalweachter wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know what actually bothers me the most about all crypto-currencies? None of them are actually money, like in the paper-or-gold-coin sense. They're all ledgers. The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone . Possession of the money is possession of the money and third parties don't need to get involved in every transaction. I can hand someone dollars and take a sandwich and walk away, transaction done. T…

> The thing about money is that I can hand it to someone. Honestly don’t know if you’re trolling or just old. I used paper money once last year. To buy weed. Because the federal government has determined I am not responsible enough to use or own weed. No one I know uses physical cash anymore. We’re moving away from physical items where possible, not toward it. I would rather have my currency on a public DLT than cont…

They are having to mandate cash acceptance at stores now as many would prefer to do away with it.

https://www.npr.org/2020/02/06/803003343/some-businesses-are...