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China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

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Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#41

Post by analog31 »

gruez wrote: post #26
analog31 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From what I've read, mining makes digital currency subject to control by governments that can subsidize or even monopolize the mining process. So a mining-free currency might be closer to the dream of a currency that is not subject to government manipulation. That's assuming a different technology doesn't just expose a different hack.

>From what I've read, mining makes digital currency subject to control by governments that can subsidize or even monopolize the mining process. If governments can subsidize the mining process, can't they also subsidize the staking process?

Probably. I'm guessing that a currency that's permanently free from government interference is a pipe dream. Or perhaps more likely, a cat and mouse game like trying to keep a computer system from getting hacked. Each currency will have a honeymoon period before people figure out how to corrupt it, so the solution may be to live with a constant evolution of currencies.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#42

Post by blululu »

aww_dang wrote: post #38
feawwefawefa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people on HN like to whine about the environment. they love the statistic that bitcoin uses more energy than argentina. ask them 6 months ago (when bitcoin still used the same amount of energy as argentina) and they will tell you how much they love btc and decentralization.

Personally, I am of the opinion that individuals should be able to use electricity however they choose, provided they pay a market rate for it. Interesting to see HN praising the CCP's policies in this regard.

Market rates for electricity do not exist in a country where the power grid is controlled by communists. Given that most countries subsidize electricity consumption the same basic issue applies. Looking beyond naive libertarianism, there is the bigger question of waste and whether people are entitled to consume a resource regardless of the application. Historically efficiency was seen as a virtue, but modern attitudes are more open to waste. It’s a fair question to ask whether this is an aberration.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#43

Post by nannal »

klmadfejno wrote: post #39
Geee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're banning coal-powered bitcoin mining. This is good for Bitcoin.

Not if bitcoin just starts consuming renewable power, causing other use cases to make up the difference in coal power.

Sounds like there's a fairly simple conclusion we can jump to that solves all the issue of burning fossil fuels.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#44

Post by klmadfejno »

nannal wrote: post #43
klmadfejno wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not if bitcoin just starts consuming renewable power, causing other use cases to make up the difference in coal power.

Sounds like there's a fairly simple conclusion we can jump to that solves all the issue of burning fossil fuels.

If you can solve global energy scarcity I'd be eager to hear it.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#45

Post by cesarb »

virtue3 wrote: post #24
whoknew1122 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost as if people's thoughts can change and evolve. I honestly wonder when and how changing your mind became a bad thing. Show me someone whose thoughts or ideas don't evolve and I'll show you someone who's wasting their life.

I suspect a lot of people didn't realize how much power was being used for bitcoin. New information should ideally get people to re-evaluate their initial opinions about something (ideally).

> I suspect a lot of people didn't realize how much power was being used for bitcoin.

And another thing which changed is that, every time the price of Bitcoin increases, it can (and will) use more power (the amount of power a Bitcoin miner uses is limited by how much power it can buy with the mining rewards, because if it used more power than that, it would be mining at a loss). There's a lot of difference between when one Bitcoin was USD 1, when it was USD 4000, and now that it's over USD 50000. Someone who was OK with how much power the Bitcoin network used back when the per-block mining reward was around USD 50, might not be OK with how much power the Bitcoin network uses now that the per-block mining reward is over USD 325000.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#46

Post by herbst »

Geee wrote: post #30
exabrial wrote: post #8

I hope we see more Bitcoin mining bans elsewhere. I definitely like digital currencies, but mined currencies need to go.

They're banning coal-powered bitcoin mining. This is good for Bitcoin.

Countries like germany also heavily depend on coal fpr energy. Thats not a chinese only issue if suggest that.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#47

Post by aww_dang »

blululu wrote: post #42
aww_dang wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally, I am of the opinion that individuals should be able to use electricity however they choose, provided they pay a market rate for it. Interesting to see HN praising the CCP's policies in this regard.

Market rates for electricity do not exist in a country where the power grid is controlled by communists. Given that most countries subsidize electricity consumption the same basic issue applies. Looking beyond naive libertarianism, there is the bigger question of waste and whether people are entitled to consume a resource regardless of the application. Historically efficiency was seen as a virtue, but modern attitude…

>Market rates for electricity do not exist in a country where the power grid is controlled by communists. Given that most countries subsidize electricity consumption the same basic issue applies.

Yes, that's a problem in my view. Observing that it is the status quo doesn't rationalize it or further prohibitions to defend price controls.

I'm not sure if you would regard it as naive, but price controls are widely regarded as inefficient distortions of a market.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Price_controls#Criticism

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#48

Post by gnrlst »

exabrial wrote: post #8

I hope we see more Bitcoin mining bans elsewhere. I definitely like digital currencies, but mined currencies need to go.

This is the reason I'm rooting for the underdog DPoS/ORV currencies like Nano. Bitcoin is slow, too expensive to run and is becoming increasingly centralized--the opposite of what it was trying to be.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#49

Post by api »

Geee wrote: post #30
exabrial wrote: post #8

I hope we see more Bitcoin mining bans elsewhere. I definitely like digital currencies, but mined currencies need to go.

They're banning coal-powered bitcoin mining. This is good for Bitcoin.

Energy is fungible. Use more renewable power and more coal or gas gets used elsewhere.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#50

Post by latchkey »

klmadfejno wrote: post #39
Geee wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're banning coal-powered bitcoin mining. This is good for Bitcoin.

Not if bitcoin just starts consuming renewable power, causing other use cases to make up the difference in coal power.

The reality is that you can't dictate what power is used. Power on a large scale is extremely hard and expensive to transmit. Comments like this do not consider the larger picture.

If you plop a mining farm down next to an existing hydro dam that was previously used for powering aluminum smelting, then that farm is now funding the maintenance of that dam. That dam then can provide power to the surrounding community. It isn't about making up a difference, it is about keeping that dam running. Oh and what's worse for the environment then wasting energy on mining bitcoin? Aluminum smelting.

This is exactly what coinmint did at an old Alcoa facility in upstate NY. They are using power that would otherwise go to waste. It is too expensive to build more transmission lines to feed power to people further away. Re-using the Alcoa facility also helps fund its further cleanup from the years of toxic waste produced there. A bunch of drone computers is a perfect use.

I'm all for shutting down coal based mining. At this point most large mining operations are not profitable on that anyway and have moved to other sources of power.

Disclosure: I am a large very scale ETH miner who uses hydro (but not at coinmint, I'm just very familiar with their facility).

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