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China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

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Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#21

Post by analog31 »

oarsinsync wrote: post #11
exabrial wrote: post #8

I hope we see more Bitcoin mining bans elsewhere. I definitely like digital currencies, but mined currencies need to go.

What’s a digital currency without mining, and how does it differ from regular fiat money today?

From what I've read, mining makes digital currency subject to control by governments that can subsidize or even monopolize the mining process. So a mining-free currency might be closer to the dream of a currency that is not subject to government manipulation. That's assuming a different technology doesn't just expose a different hack.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#22

Post by TacticalCoder »

bjeds wrote: post #4
burlesona wrote: post #2

I’m not shocked to see this. I’m bullish on bitcoin overall, but at this point I believe the Geo-political risk caused by the insane power requirements of current day mining are the biggest danger to bitcoin as a whole. Obviously the network and operate fine with less power, but if that reduction in hash rate occurs because most of the world has banned mining, you can imagine a situation where the remaining miners ca…

As someone living in the European Union I'd be extremely surprised if bitcoin isn't taxed/regulated to death within 1-2 years here. The recent price increase will attract the attention of governments sceptical of assets they don't understand (they don't understand it, but they want a piece of it), and they will get loud support from the environmentalists who are alarmed by the reports making the rounds ("more power t…

> As someone living in the European Union I'd be extremely surprised if bitcoin isn't taxed/regulated to death within 1-2 years here.

The EU has no fiscal competence, this is left to the individual states.

I don't think much Bitcoin mining is done in the EU? Much of the EU has the most expensive electricity in the world.

From a fiscal point of view the taxation of cryptocurrencies depends on each nation. Many have already decided, by law, how to tax Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. For example in Portugal if I'm not mistaken Bitcoin is considered a currency and gains made on currencies are not taxed. In other countries it's considered capital gains. Etc.

None of it is harmonized.

The EU simply doesn't have the authority at the moment when it comes to fiscal matters (it's the same for taxes on cars, gold, jewelry, whatever).

The EU probably can issue a rule banning mining using proof of work in the EU that'd then have to be translated into national laws: but I don't think that'd change anything.

Banning mining in China, however... That one would probably have consequences.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#24

Post by virtue3 »

whoknew1122 wrote: post #17
feawwefawefa wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

people on HN like to whine about the environment. they love the statistic that bitcoin uses more energy than argentina. ask them 6 months ago (when bitcoin still used the same amount of energy as argentina) and they will tell you how much they love btc and decentralization.

It's almost as if people's thoughts can change and evolve. I honestly wonder when and how changing your mind became a bad thing. Show me someone whose thoughts or ideas don't evolve and I'll show you someone who's wasting their life.

I suspect a lot of people didn't realize how much power was being used for bitcoin.

New information should ideally get people to re-evaluate their initial opinions about something (ideally).

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#25

Post by aboringusername »

pavlov wrote: post #10
bjeds wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone living in the European Union I'd be extremely surprised if bitcoin isn't taxed/regulated to death within 1-2 years here. The recent price increase will attract the attention of governments sceptical of assets they don't understand (they don't understand it, but they want a piece of it), and they will get loud support from the environmentalists who are alarmed by the reports making the rounds ("more power t…

I would vote in the EU elections for almost any parliamentary group that makes this a priority. This is a perfect example of an issue where union-level decision making is required to curb a destructive activity.

Can you explain in your opinion how mining is a "destructive activity" yet before there were plenty of other "destructive activity".

Money is destructive, period. And plastic.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#26

Post by gruez »

analog31 wrote: post #21
oarsinsync wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s a digital currency without mining, and how does it differ from regular fiat money today?

From what I've read, mining makes digital currency subject to control by governments that can subsidize or even monopolize the mining process. So a mining-free currency might be closer to the dream of a currency that is not subject to government manipulation. That's assuming a different technology doesn't just expose a different hack.

>From what I've read, mining makes digital currency subject to control by governments that can subsidize or even monopolize the mining process.

If governments can subsidize the mining process, can't they also subsidize the staking process?

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#27

Post by yorwba »

cheaprentalyeti wrote: post #3

I suspect this has more to do with Chinese internal politics ("We're tired of spending money on industries in Inner Mongolia that aren't part of the national industrial plan or whatever we're calling it this week") than anything to do with the environment. They still added a lot of coal plants last year. They just want to spend the resulting power on something other than businesses in Inner Mongolia.

> I suspect this has more to do with Chinese internal politics ... than anything to do with the environment.

It's both. From the article:

In terms of helping China meet its goals of reducing carbon emissions, Inner Mongolia has not had a good track record. It failed to meet China’s energy-saving target in 2019. The central government criticized Inner Mongolia for its “serious problems with energy conservation,” according to People’s Daily, a mouthpiece of China’s Communist Party.

Chinese internal politics also include environmental regulations. If the government of Inner Mongolia doesn't want to exceed the energy consumption limit again, they need to make cuts somewhere.

Now the specific choice of banning cryptominers is a matter of Inner Mongolian internal politics. But it's unsurprising that they'd prefer local businesses over some bitcoin miners who could easily move their operation to a different province (as many of the examples in the article did.)

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#28

Post by aww_dang »

iagovar wrote: post #9
bjeds wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone living in the European Union I'd be extremely surprised if bitcoin isn't taxed/regulated to death within 1-2 years here. The recent price increase will attract the attention of governments sceptical of assets they don't understand (they don't understand it, but they want a piece of it), and they will get loud support from the environmentalists who are alarmed by the reports making the rounds ("more power t…

Crypto in general poses a problem for lots of governments. You want to avoid their control, they want to control you. They have manpower and violence, you have, at best, a network of willful individuals. So either this is a tide that changes the whole world, or it's going to be harshly confronted. Doesn't matter that Tesla buys n bitcoins, or Microstrategy or whatever. And I do have money on crypto. Not on bitcoin, n…

I expect a segue into CBDC.

Re: China’s Bitcoin miners flee Inner Mongolia ahead of crypto mining ban

#29

Post by yardstick »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #16
oarsinsync wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s a digital currency without mining, and how does it differ from regular fiat money today?

> What’s a digital currency without mining... I take it GP meant mining without gigantic electricity consumption: so not proof-of-stake but proof-of-work > ... and how does it differ from regular fiat money today? There was a discussion here a few days ago where people were trying to determine how many swiss bills were circulating... Someone commented on the irony, in a thread hating on cryptocurrencies, that anyone…

> that anyone at anytime can know exactly how many, say, Bitcoin or Ethereum do actually exists.

Isn’t there a distinction between issued/minted currency and the amount in circulation? With Bitcoin and physical cash you know how many coins are minted and notes issued etc.

But how much of that is in circulation? Does lost physical currency still qualify as in circulation? What about Bitcoin wallets long lost by their owners (such as the British man who keeps wanting a rubbish dump to search for a HDD he threw out years ago, or the person who forgot his password and has 2 attempts left until the wallet self destructs). I don’t think either currency can accurately track the amount in circulation.

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