Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims • Hacker News Board

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#121

Post by mattigames » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:10 PM UTC

e40 wrote: post #52

yumraj wrote: post #4

We need two things, I don’t think either will happen: 1) sanctions against China 2) a Greater Firewall outside China, right on all fiber cables, blocking/filtering all traffic from China. China is a hostile nation and we need to treat it as such.

I love the world we live in: everyone has an opinion on severely complex matters and proffers it in an absolutely confident way that their opinion is the truth. I don't like China's behavior (toward us and it's own). I don't believe for a minute that I know how to solve the problem, because every solution is bound to have unintended side effects, some which may be worse than the original problem.

Your opinion is also problematic, specially when politicians hold it (which is not uncommon), as in "This problem is way too complex, let's do nothing and pray that it will fix itself"

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#122

Post by vgchh » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:10 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #3

Somewhat recently a head of Microsoft was asked about forgoing access to the Chinese market if it meant protecting American interests in the face of new threats. He unequivocally said, yes. He was willing to forgo their market. I'm not sure Apple and others who either sell product there or have large manufacturing there are as willing to forgo the 'promise market', but it looks more and more we will have to. More or…

Increasingly, companies like Tesla also need to figure out how they will adjust to an adversarial China and the corresponding shift in Geopolitical reality. I remember reading that China may derive 40% of its revenues from Chinese market soon. Also wonder if this is already priced into Tesla's stock. That being said, I am also sure Elon and Co. are not sitting idle and twiddling their thumbs. In any case, it will be interesting to see how they deal with this.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#123

Post by zepto » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:13 PM UTC

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #97

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The nation" in this context is the government, no matter how much you keep trying to change the definition.

It's possible you have a custom, non-standard understanding of the term. According to Merriam Webster, it has 5 meanings, and none of them refers to the government. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nation

False.

Definition 1.b. in your link includes the government explicitly.

None of them exclude the government, and they can all reasonably include the government.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#124

Post by NoOneNew » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:18 PM UTC

mdasen wrote: post #74

dgellow wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few speculative ideas/thoughts: - The US needs access to China's goods to be viable. For half a century US companies improved their efficiency/competitiveness by moving their process to China. They now have too many dependencies in the form of Chinese manufacturing and development capabilities and do not have the skills/knowledge/talents/infrastructure in the US. Because of this China can dictate their rules with z…

$1T of US debt sounds like a lot, but it's less than 4% of US debt. It's not an insignificant amount, but they don't own a lot to impact the US economy. Japan owns more ($1.25T) and the UK and Ireland get up to $0.75T. Realistically, what would china do? If you "start massively selling US debt", what does that mean? Someone has to buy it. You're increasing the supply while demand probably stays pretty constant. But r…

>who wouldn't take US government debt at a 10% discount?

Better question, who wants to be the guy that goes, "I have a great idea. It'll really piss off those yanks. It'll just cost us about $100 billion (the price of like 7 Gerald Ford class carriers) along with the interest payments. A small price to pay to piss them off and have their private corps and allies buy their debt at a discount."

That's borderline a scenario like that comic meme at a board meeting for ideas and the dude gets thrown out the window.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#125

Post by NoOneNew » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

KirillPanov wrote: post #87

dgellow wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few speculative ideas/thoughts: - The US needs access to China's goods to be viable. For half a century US companies improved their efficiency/competitiveness by moving their process to China. They now have too many dependencies in the form of Chinese manufacturing and development capabilities and do not have the skills/knowledge/talents/infrastructure in the US. Because of this China can dictate their rules with z…

> China owns more than 1 trillion of US debt. ... they may start massively selling US debt, which would impact USD and the US economy. We just printed four trillion dollars out of thin air and the sky didn't fall. What makes you think that printing one quarter of that amount in order to sterilize a dump of treasuries will cause the sky to fall?

Not the way it works, at all.

Treasury bonds are issued and put on the bond market. When purchased, those funds are the "money printer go brrrr". It's not so much printing money, just getting deeper into debt. Call it what it is, so it can be approached properly. Calling a tiger a duck isn't going to save you from getting mauled to death.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#126

Post by chrischen » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #107

refenestrator wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very simple explanation is that the USA is infiltrated by communists?

In other words, yes. I avoided stating it this bluntly for it being almost a cartoon trope. But... but one can't believe into any other explanation as any much credible. Do hundreds of US political insiders lobby for China in one voice just for nothing? You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders. American legal system prohibits jailing people for anything bu…

> You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders.

Lol you’ve just described capitalists.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#127

Post by jjcc » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:23 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #80

kelnos wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also believed that giving China an example of "the good way" via access to the US markets would cause them to open up and allow access in kind. Turned out that was a pretty naive belief.

It wasn't even a belief in the first place. I read a dozen books on post-Nixon US politics. The amount of allegations from both sides of US politics that the other benefitted in the personal capacity from trade with China is staggering. At least some of them must be genuine. It comes to a very simple explanation that communists have indeed been influencing US politics for decades with very crude means, and that they…

I just happened to read a new article on "Moon Of Alabama". Then I realize there must be some debate on HN. I'm not disappointed

Here's what lead me to come back to HN:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2021/03/is-china-hacking-rando...

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#128

Post by refenestrator » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #107

refenestrator wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The very simple explanation is that the USA is infiltrated by communists?

In other words, yes. I avoided stating it this bluntly for it being almost a cartoon trope. But... but one can't believe into any other explanation as any much credible. Do hundreds of US political insiders lobby for China in one voice just for nothing? You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders. American legal system prohibits jailing people for anything bu…

What about water flouridation? Stealing our essence or no?

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#129

Post by baybal2 » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:24 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #108

baybal2 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US needs access to China's goods to be viable. No, it really isn't. The thing the US is indeed does very little for an economy of its size. Washington can slam fist on the table, and US industry will be out of China by tomorrow, without much impact at home besides no iToys this season, and few percents off its stock market. Lack of consumer goods would of course be upsetting, but people wouldn't die from lack o…

> US industry will be out of China by tomorrow Yeah, I think you're under estimating the interconnectedness of the supply chain there. Would definitely make the pandemic disruption look small. And you're assuming China won't retaliate. I wouldn't like to be a US national in China when that happened.

> Yeah, I think you're under estimating the interconnectedness of the supply chain there. Would definitely make the pandemic disruption look small.

Pandemic disruption is small. A disruption on this scale was nothing unheard of historically. Infectious diseases were taking millions of lives in the developed world before the advent of antibiotics, and to lesser extend until the bio-technological revolution of seventies.

What was unheard of was world's biggest power being rendered utterly impotent, and in complete stupor by such minor events.

I see a country like US being otherwise fully capable of dealing with a crisis on this scale easily.

> And you're assuming China won't retaliate. I wouldn't like to be a US national in China when that happened.

Of course they will! You will be cutting into personal coffers of their highest elites. It will be a very personal challenge to them. Having them eat watery gruel like lowly peasants will infuriate them.

That's exactly the POINT. You see a bad guy, you challenge him to beat him. You don't beat a bad guy by avoiding him.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#130

Post by dragonwriter » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 10:32 PM UTC

NoOneNew wrote: post #125

KirillPanov wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China owns more than 1 trillion of US debt. ... they may start massively selling US debt, which would impact USD and the US economy. We just printed four trillion dollars out of thin air and the sky didn't fall. What makes you think that printing one quarter of that amount in order to sterilize a dump of treasuries will cause the sky to fall?

Not the way it works, at all. Treasury bonds are issued and put on the bond market. When purchased, those funds are the "money printer go brrrr". It's not so much printing money, just getting deeper into debt. Call it what it is, so it can be approached properly. Calling a tiger a duck isn't going to save you from getting mauled to death.

> Treasury bonds are issued and put on the bond market. When purchased, those funds are the "money printer go brrrr".

No, they aren't.

You are confusing fiscal deficits with monetary expansion. Worse yet, seem to be complaining that GP is failing to confuse monetary expansion with fiscal deficits, when suggesting use of the former to deal with the adverse effects of a particular source of constraints on the ability to leverage the latter.