Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims • Hacker News Board

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#101

Post by baybal2 » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:18 PM UTC

r00fus wrote: post #96

baybal2 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We'll see how Biden handles this. I'm sure it's a tough call. I don't see how he can. I don't see how the next 2-3 US administrations can. If the current level of China's "scare power" is enough to paralyze the US, you will have less, and less options on the table with each year as you go. Time works against the US, and the West at large.

The proposal was always TPP or some transnational treaty like that. You know, the one that went over like a lead ballon and likely cost Hillary the 2016 election? Likelihood that this kind of treaty coming into force now is essentially nil.

Well, what solution do you propose then?

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#102

Post by mc32 » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:24 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #89

mc32 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah but it means they don’t get paid as much either as there is no wage pressure at the bottom. You can’t have $5 T-shirts and also a $15 minimum wage.

>You can’t have $5 T-shirts and also a $15 minimum wage. with $15 minimum wage there is no need for $5 T-shirts.

I agree!

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#103

Post by remarkEon » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:25 PM UTC

carapace wrote: post #23

dvfjsdhgfv wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> China is a hostile nation I really have no idea where this narrative comes from. Chinese government is evil, hostile, and cruel even to (some of) their own citizens. However, China as a nation are people - just like you and me. Why should we treat them as "hostile"? It makes no sense at all. This kind of crooked reasoning and blurred thinking is one of the main causes of all wars in the history of mankind.

Yeah, this. Chinese culture is much older and more widespread than the CCP. The Chinatown here in San Francisco is older than the state of California. We had our first Chinese New Year Parade in 1851. The Communists are the problem, and even then not unqualified: the CCP has lifted hundreds of millions of people out of relative poverty to economic prosperity, even as they do terrible things to Tibetans, Uighurs, and…

This is the hardest part about discussing this issue, for sure. The rapid technological and economic expansion achieved by CCP is the most impressive in all of human history in terms of numbers. It’s brutal, for sure, but that achievement means a lot of Chinese people are willing to look past the bad things, and look forward towards goals of further technological development.

The important difference between the “West” and China is that everyone knows CCP is going to look out for China. It’s not immediately clear that governments in the west do the same for their own.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#104

Post by refenestrator » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #80

kelnos wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US also believed that giving China an example of "the good way" via access to the US markets would cause them to open up and allow access in kind. Turned out that was a pretty naive belief.

It wasn't even a belief in the first place. I read a dozen books on post-Nixon US politics. The amount of allegations from both sides of US politics that the other benefitted in the personal capacity from trade with China is staggering. At least some of them must be genuine. It comes to a very simple explanation that communists have indeed been influencing US politics for decades with very crude means, and that they…

The very simple explanation is that the USA is infiltrated by communists?

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#105

Post by dang » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:31 PM UTC

Url changed from https://www.thenexthint.com/white-house-warns-after-microsof..., which points to this.

"Please submit the original source. If a post reports on something found on another site, submit the latter."

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#106

Post by refenestrator » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:33 PM UTC

elefanten wrote: post #92

dragonwriter wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lack of consumer goods would of course be upsetting, but people wouldn't die from lack of them. Lack of consumer goods means lack of jobs for people who transport, warehouse, and sell consumer goods. Lack of jobs means lack of money to pay for things like food, shelter, medical care, etc, only some of which the US has adequate safety nets for. People will, indeed, die from lack of consumer goods.

Equivocation. Gp means lack of specific consumer goods, for a set time. Your comment makes it seem like this would lead to catastrophe or collapse. It would more likely lead to industry rotation and employment change. Yes, you can reduce any macro factor to a death count, but those are always trading off in all directions. It's meaningless to categorically single out a particular scenario of swapping production as mo…

It would take a generation to build an electronics industry equivalent to shenzhen, and would require state involvement/investment that we're not capable of.

I'd like to regain industrial capacity too but we're missing an entire population base of expertise and relationships.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#107

Post by baybal2 » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:41 PM UTC

refenestrator wrote: post #104

baybal2 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't even a belief in the first place. I read a dozen books on post-Nixon US politics. The amount of allegations from both sides of US politics that the other benefitted in the personal capacity from trade with China is staggering. At least some of them must be genuine. It comes to a very simple explanation that communists have indeed been influencing US politics for decades with very crude means, and that they…

The very simple explanation is that the USA is infiltrated by communists?

In other words, yes. I avoided stating it this bluntly for it being almost a cartoon trope.

But... but one can't believe into any other explanation as any much credible.

Do hundreds of US political insiders lobby for China in one voice just for nothing?

You don't have closet communists, just a lot of very greedy, amoral, and easy to exploit power holders.

American legal system prohibits jailing people for anything but being caught red handed in cases of political corruption.

I have no idea what you can do about that without doing political persecution, but on other hand if you leave it be it will keep being exploited like hell.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#108

Post by pjc50 » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:44 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #65

dgellow wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few speculative ideas/thoughts: - The US needs access to China's goods to be viable. For half a century US companies improved their efficiency/competitiveness by moving their process to China. They now have too many dependencies in the form of Chinese manufacturing and development capabilities and do not have the skills/knowledge/talents/infrastructure in the US. Because of this China can dictate their rules with z…

> The US needs access to China's goods to be viable. No, it really isn't. The thing the US is indeed does very little for an economy of its size. Washington can slam fist on the table, and US industry will be out of China by tomorrow, without much impact at home besides no iToys this season, and few percents off its stock market. Lack of consumer goods would of course be upsetting, but people wouldn't die from lack o…

> US industry will be out of China by tomorrow

Yeah, I think you're under estimating the interconnectedness of the supply chain there. Would definitely make the pandemic disruption look small.

And you're assuming China won't retaliate. I wouldn't like to be a US national in China when that happened.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#109

Post by pjc50 » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #90

vkou wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, it does. Run a political campaign on 'All the stuff you buy? I'm going to make it cost more,' and you will be slaughtered at the polls. People barely making ends meet aren't very interested in those kinds of political statements. You could, of course, try to lie to them about what the consequences of your policies are going to be.

You are correct, and this is America's, and West's predicament. If you can't do this, you can't do this. And you certainly wouldn't be able to do even more painful things which are truly needed for the West to have any chance to put the genie back into the bottle. China, and Russia have effectively conditioned the NATO countries over the decades into "self-beneficial inaction." Now, seeing words like yours proves the…

This is still a massive improvement over the Cold War, though.

Re: Chinese hacking spree hit an ‘astronomical’ number of victims

#110

Post by angio » Sat, Mar 06, 2021, 9:51 PM UTC

yumraj wrote: post #4

We need two things, I don’t think either will happen: 1) sanctions against China 2) a Greater Firewall outside China, right on all fiber cables, blocking/filtering all traffic from China. China is a hostile nation and we need to treat it as such.

> a Greater Firewall outside China, right on all fiber cables, blocking/filtering all traffic from China.

How do you propose to coordinate hundreds of countries to cut one country off the internet?