From the end user’s perspective, what would the advantages of an app without centralized storage, like these, have vs. an app with E2E encryption and traditional centralized storage? If the end user’s data is encrypted on the service provider’s side and cannot be read without the user providing a key, doesn’t that achieve the same level of privacy from the user’s perspective?
Zero Data App
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Re: Zero Data App
#102From the end user’s perspective, what would the advantages of an app without centralized storage, like these, have vs. an app with E2E encryption and traditional centralized storage? If the end user’s data is encrypted on the service provider’s side and cannot be read without the user providing a key, doesn’t that achieve the same level of privacy from the user’s perspective?
If the company goes bankrupt and shuts down all their servers, I still have my data.
Re: Zero Data App
#103Earlier quoted context omitted.
We are developing both server and apps for [3] https://solidproject.org/ The effort is backed by Tim Berners Lee, with great auth libraries including dPop and PKCE token exchange
Why is Solid architected such that your data resides on a computer that you don’t own, when people own computers and phones that are plenty capable of storing data and communicating via the Internet?
Re: Zero Data App
#104Earlier quoted context omitted.
So these services/libraries are meant to be included in apps to provide this capability? The solution, help, I'm looking for is to be able to easily integrate this into development - to give users control of running the apps with their data but also for the ability to give access/send the data to a centralized platform - or request/command for it be removed; obviously that decision will be if they trust the platform,…
I'm not sure exactly what you mean by "these services/libraries", but yes, in Solid, apps need to be explicitly built to support Solid, and data can only be stored in Solid Pods. Although it's not Solid, an older project is https://remotestorage.io , which is a library that needs to be explicitly used by apps supporting RemoteStorage, but does allow users to store the data on Google Drive or Dropbox too, IIRC.
Re: Zero Data App
#105I pay iCloud and Dropbox monthly so I don't need to manage my own data. I know its secure with Apple and Dropbox.
To me privacy concerns and hypotheticals are less important than losing data outright to attackers or my own mistakes.
Re: Zero Data App
#106Earlier quoted context omitted.
For (1), why not have all your devices sync up when they are on your local wifi network? If your phone automatically backs up to your NAS, and syncs with your home desktop, your data should always be up to date and backed up in multiple places. Then if you really have to sync while not being at home, you could do something over ssh/using a vpn.
Very few people have a NAS. Even among the tech literate, there aren't that many people who use SSH or VPN. If this isn't transparent to the user, you'll see very marginal adoption.
Re: Zero Data App
#107Earlier quoted context omitted.
For (1), why not have all your devices sync up when they are on your local wifi network? If your phone automatically backs up to your NAS, and syncs with your home desktop, your data should always be up to date and backed up in multiple places. Then if you really have to sync while not being at home, you could do something over ssh/using a vpn.
That's a great idea, have you got recommendations for specific apps to use? Also, what's the setup for backing up your NAS?
Re: Zero Data App
#108As someone dabbling with such an app right now, there are several hurdles if you want to exclusively use self sovereign identity. 1. Local data gets lost, so you need to sync for backup. But when your device gets lost or when you need to access it from elsewhere, how would you login to the said backup service? The most intuitive option is still a username and a password. 2. It's hard to transfer data from one device…
Backups are handled (by the user) - the user can purchase cloud storage through a provider (like https://inrupt.com/products/enterprise-solid-server/, though there are other free services - or you can host your own wherever you want). Users don't have to safely handle cryptographic keys or deal with device syncing.
Re: Zero Data App
#109Re: Zero Data App
#110As someone dabbling with such an app right now, there are several hurdles if you want to exclusively use self sovereign identity. 1. Local data gets lost, so you need to sync for backup. But when your device gets lost or when you need to access it from elsewhere, how would you login to the said backup service? The most intuitive option is still a username and a password. 2. It's hard to transfer data from one device…
Otherwise I’d say it’s clear you’re in the space and I agree with your assessment.