Live data from Hacker News

Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

archive.vn

211–220 of 413 posts

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#211
post #30

I used to think VS Code was going to be a threat to JetBrains IDEs considering how fast its iterative development was (thanks in large part to the productivity of JS + Web renderer) but its never seems to quite be able to reach the feature-set, polish & intelligence of JetBrains IDEs. Every IDE function appears to be better implemented in JetBrains, whether it's Code Analysis, Refactoring, Navigation, Running/Debuggi…

I use both. IntelliJ being a paid personal subscription. I like both. But VsCode excels in their remote editing capabilities. Sometimes I work on code that will only compile on a Linux and I am on a Mac. It is not just remote debugging - the whole environment including language server works flawlessly via remote while making you feel like local development.

It is good for two good IDEs to survive. I don’t want one of them to win. There is room for two.

I only wish the opensource development model of plugins (for both IntelliJ and VsCode) doesn’t come to bite us one day with a rogue developer inserting malware. The whole review/reputation system should be like Apple App Store

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#212

Until four months ago I used PHPStorm although I haven't typed a line of PHP code in at least 4 years. Since all my coding is with TypeScript I decided to switch to VSCode and not renew my Idea subscription. The only feature I miss is the local history. It is nice to be able to aggressively hash out code to solve a complicated problem and revert to the state 1 minute, 5 minutes, or 20 minutes ago or at least look at…

There is a local history extension in the marketplace. It’s a huge timesaver for me. Check it out

Which one do you like?

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#213
> GitHub is now a MS property, so in the future VS Code is expected to be more and more integrated into GitHub. That pretty much catches all the young and hip audience in a MS owned behavior loop. Which certainly shows some very competent strategic planning.

And so, it baffles me even more that AWS weren't in the conversation to acquire GitHub (or if they were, that they failed to acquire them). Seems like a huge miss to me.

> Meanwhile, JetBrains seems to be staying afloat mostly thanks to hard work and sheer luck.

Setting aside their colossal IDE efforts for a minute, Kotlin and the ecosystem JetBrain's building alone shows their level of competence. Truly amazing to put in so much effort while also making the business work. I mean, in a world of F/OSS languages, frameworks, and IDEs this is no mean feat.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#214

My take with VS Code is that their support of development container and ssh is the best and it's a killer feature. My ultimate goal for quite sometime now was to pack all my development dependencies inside containers or cloud-init files to keep my host bare-bone and have reproducible/shareable setups anywhere anytime. Before I was an Emacs fan. I tried multiple combination of Emacs, Tramp and containers but it failed…

Fully agree. Also, if you need to debug your code that runs in kubernetes pods, VS Code also smokes other IDEs. In my case, not only the API calls are forwarded from the cluster to my debugging session but I can also consume during debugging some Kubernetes services by using their DNS names. Just awesome.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#215
post #211
post #30

I used to think VS Code was going to be a threat to JetBrains IDEs considering how fast its iterative development was (thanks in large part to the productivity of JS + Web renderer) but its never seems to quite be able to reach the feature-set, polish & intelligence of JetBrains IDEs. Every IDE function appears to be better implemented in JetBrains, whether it's Code Analysis, Refactoring, Navigation, Running/Debuggi…

I use both. IntelliJ being a paid personal subscription. I like both. But VsCode excels in their remote editing capabilities. Sometimes I work on code that will only compile on a Linux and I am on a Mac. It is not just remote debugging - the whole environment including language server works flawlessly via remote while making you feel like local development. It is good for two good IDEs to survive. I don’t want one of…

This right here is what could get me to switch.

I could theoretically host an IDE on a workstation and develop from anywhere with a browser.

Unfortunately it's not ideal yet - remote editor wouldn't let me touch files not owned by session user (even when I could sudo) and similar issues.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if you have had the chance to use a Jetbrains IDE with a professional license. Doing so gives you access to more or less the content of all the other "flavors" as plugins (it's basically all IntelliJ underneath). For example, I've been using PyCharm for both our python backend _and_ our React + Typescript frontend, all in the same project window, with the same features regarding syntax, linting, refactoring,…

I have. IntelliJ ultimate edition still has fewer features for PHP specifically than Phpstorm. Presumably not because it actually has fewer features, but because "the debugger" now has 150 options instead of like 5. Also, these super-featured IDEs still won't support languages that Jetbrains doesn't have a specific IDE for. For instance, Delphi. Sure they'll support syntax highlighting somehow, and there might be one…

As someone who used to develop in Delphi for my day job, but has been mostly out of the loop for the last ~10 years, this really got me curious: do people actually use VSCode for Delphi? I mean, Delphi already comes with an IDE, including a GUI ("Forms") designer - that was its killer feature back in the nineties, that you could slap together a GUI app as quickly as in good ol' Visual Basic, but backed by a compiled language. Maybe the text editor is better in VSCode, but still I imagine it's pretty hard to deliver the same experience as with the "native" Delphi IDE? So I can understand that JetBrains doesn't see a huge market for that (unless they could become the official Delphi IDE, like they did with Android Studio).

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#217

People act as if the language server protocol has no equivalent in JetBrains ecosystem. There are, things like MPS: https://www.jetbrains.com/help/mps/mps-user-s-guide.html , or the platform: https://plugins.jetbrains.com/docs/intellij/intellij-platfor... This whole argument that VS code takes over seems to be assuming the Language Server Protocol and Electron is a vastly superior ecosystem. I haven't seen any eviden…

Isn't eclipse also an open source ecosystem too? that said, I would rather work with either Jetbrains or VS code than eclipse.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#218
post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Theoretically yes. In practice no. Each IDE has workflows and features tuned to their respective domain. They're not just simple configuration changes from each other

The simplified setup for modules in the language-specific IDEs alone makes them worth it IMO. It’s great that the plugins in IntelliJ cover basically everything but CLion, AppCode and Rider - but if I’m working on Python, JavaScript, PHP or doing database work I’ll still fire up Pycharm, WebStorm, PHPStorm and DataGrip respectively because there’s less overhead getting my project imported (and DataGrip is more useful…

Even just using the correct language terms is helpful. IntelliJ modules contain packages, because that's how Java works, which makes it super confusing when your modules are python packages and its subunit (called package in the UI) is a python module.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A short read and should give enough examples and descriptions of the strategy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... Once you've killed off the competition, a lot of other things don't really matter much any more. From the money perspective, it's a well known strategy to loose money to kill off the competition. It's just about who has the deeper pockets/better stomach for it. Microsoft has t…

> A short read and should give enough examples and descriptions of the strategy I know about it and don't need a Wikipedia link to enlighten me, thank you. In my comment I questioned your application of that theory to reality by raising concerns about the cost/benefit analysis from a Microsoft perspective. I don't think you're accurately scoping the undertaking of getting VSCode to feature-parity with Jetbrains produ…

Wow, I seriously underestimated the way this written communication could be misunderstood. Especially how anyone could possibly read it as a 'tirade'. And not everyone knows about EEE, especially nowadays but fair enough as to how a link to explain some of it might upset someone that does. That said I really thought that you weren't aware of some of what they had done and how much it would have cost them.

We have a difference in opinion it seems on how much money we think Microsoft might be willing to pay for it and other items as well. That's fair enough. How any of that is a tirade is honestly quite nebulous to me but I probably won't be able to change your mind, even if I tell you that it wasn't written by the furiously typing mad dog you probably imagined.

Let's structure it, so you see how I thought I was addressing things:

> truckload of code

I.e. costs a lot of money: "it's a well known strategy to loose money to kill off the competition"

> pull the plug altogether on such a cost sink

Addressed in "Microsoft has traditionally been able to do it and I have no doubts that they would still have the stomach for it"

> feature parity with Jetbrains on languages like Java or Python

The rest that starts with "I don't know if their pockets are still as deep as they used to be." and which also includes "The landscape looks a bit different nowadays I'd wager" is basically me acknowledging that your opinion is different on this than mine and that I can see that potentially their cost/benefit analysis would lean towards your interpretation. They are trying to cover the Java side well enough with the Redhat maintained plugin. If Redhat does a good enough job to take customers away from Jetbrains that plays into Microsoft's strategy without spending a lot of cash on it. Brilliant.

It's an evolving thing too and as you point out in your reply here, MS did loose the browser wars eventually. The market changes all the time through technology breakthroughs for example and people are actively working against EEE tactics too. I for one am glad that MS lost the browser wars and to address one thing that I did not comment on (on purpose because I was concerned with the EEE discussion and not whether or not one or both of us like JetBrains):

> I'm actually delighted to pay for a product that I use every day for ~8 hours

I absolutely agree that IntelliJ is awesome and I don't want to miss it or use anything else. I don't even use vscode for FE code, unlike most of our FE developers. I'm traditionally a BE guy but have no qualms about doing FE work as long as you don't make me do pixel perfect reproductions of designs in CSS :)

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely not, there are many, many language-specific things that an IDE does beyond code hints. Microsoft doesn't seem to be investing that much, if anything, on languages other than JS/TS; it is delegating all on the OSS community through plugins. And while some of the plugins are really good, in my experience they don't even come close to the native capabilities of Jetbrains products.

This is what Microsoft does. Their #1 thing is being in the market even if the product is bad. They’re delegating now, but wait until they’ve established their foothold, leveled up the core framework. Then they’re going to stop delegating one language after another.

Sure, but Microsoft also has Visual Studio. If they start heavily investing in VSCode for C#, C++, then they're going to be cannibalising Visual Studio. And for what?
Post reply on HN