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Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

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Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#181

Post by eralps »

brandonmenc wrote: post #156
Shadonototro wrote: post #130

VSCode won't kill IDEA, but it is a huge warning for Jetbrains They better invest A LOT MORE into solving slow startup and performance issues that are plaguing their IDEs since the beginning Time to ditch Java on the desktop, or invest in a native AOT compiler / or use GraalVM

I have been using JetBrains IDEs for about a decade, after having used emacs for nearly two decades. I have never felt that JetBrains was slow, but I hear that a lot here. I'm curious what situations people are finding JetBrains' speed to be impacting usability.

Sometimes I just want to read code with highlighting. I want to open the project and search for some text in all the files. I don't want to wait for IntelliJ to take 30 seconds to open.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#182

Post by siliconc0w »

Another difference is leveraging container orchestration tools (compose on the low end or k8s on the high end) to manage your dev+ environments. The editor used to take a big role in managing that but now I don't want that because I need the dev environment to be highly reproducible and a full environment is usually pretty complex with multiple apps and one or more datastores.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#183

Post by quercusa »

voidfunc wrote: post #3

I don’t really see IntelliJ and VSCode as competitors. VSCode competes with atom and other full-featured text editors (vim, emacs) ... its got great adoption amongst the newer generation of programmers that think those editors are old school and user hostile. VSCodes Java, Python, and Golang support is miles behind IntelliJ. FWIW, on my team at Microsoft where we write a lot of Go, theres a 50/50 split between Intell…

I think the textbook (i.e., The Innovator's Dilemma) model for a disruptive technology is specifically one that starts out looking like it only competes in a different (typically lower-value) market, right until it's eating your lunch.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#184

Post by arcturus17 »

tharkun__ wrote: post #142
arcturus17 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It remains to be seen whether they will find this economical when they are not making any direct revenue on the product. I understand that VSCode is part of a grand strategic plan that goes beyond revenue, but I seriously doubt that they'd be willing to internally maintain the absolute truckload of code that would ensue from getting to feature parity with Jetbrains on languages like Java or Python. I'd wager at some…

A short read and should give enough examples and descriptions of the strategy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrace,_extend,_and_extinguis... Once you've killed off the competition, a lot of other things don't really matter much any more. From the money perspective, it's a well known strategy to loose money to kill off the competition. It's just about who has the deeper pockets/better stomach for it. Microsoft has t…

> A short read and should give enough examples and descriptions of the strategy

I know about it and don't need a Wikipedia link to enlighten me, thank you.

In my comment I questioned your application of that theory to reality by raising concerns about the cost/benefit analysis from a Microsoft perspective.

I don't think you're accurately scoping the undertaking of getting VSCode to feature-parity with Jetbrains products in Java, Python, etc., nor the potential benefit for Microsoft. My contention is that the gap between Jetbrains and VSCode outside of JavaScript/TypeScript is massive, and that while VSCode is strategically important to Microsoft, they don't have the incentives to even try to extinguish Jetbrains.

But instead of addressing any of the concerns in my original comment, you've just pretty much gone on your own unrelated tirade.

Also, Microsoft ultimately lost the browser wars and many of the similar crusades that they undertook in the 90s and early 2000s, so maybe they've learned a few things along the ways.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#185

Post by dehrmann »

africanboy wrote: post #106
mythz wrote: post #30

I used to think VS Code was going to be a threat to JetBrains IDEs considering how fast its iterative development was (thanks in large part to the productivity of JS + Web renderer) but its never seems to quite be able to reach the feature-set, polish & intelligence of JetBrains IDEs. Every IDE function appears to be better implemented in JetBrains, whether it's Code Analysis, Refactoring, Navigation, Running/Debuggi…

in my experience Intellij looks better if you have coded in Inttellij first (especially Java) and then moved to othet tools. Intellij offers a lot of custom behaviours that IMO programmers start coding the "Intellij way" (let's call it Intellij muscle memory for lack of a better definition) on the other hand going from vi to Emacs to Sublime to VSCode is less of a problem and people tend to honestly judge strength an…

Something Java accidentally did was be impossible to code without an IDE, in part because of its type system. People wrote really good IDEs for it, aided by the type system. At some point, they realized they could use what they learned and adapt the IDE to other languages.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#186

Post by hasperdi »

zappo2938 wrote: post #29

Until four months ago I used PHPStorm although I haven't typed a line of PHP code in at least 4 years. Since all my coding is with TypeScript I decided to switch to VSCode and not renew my Idea subscription. The only feature I miss is the local history. It is nice to be able to aggressively hash out code to solve a complicated problem and revert to the state 1 minute, 5 minutes, or 20 minutes ago or at least look at…

There is a local history extension in the marketplace. It’s a huge timesaver for me. Check it out

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#187

Post by rfw300 »

herdcall wrote: post #87
mythz wrote: post #30

I used to think VS Code was going to be a threat to JetBrains IDEs considering how fast its iterative development was (thanks in large part to the productivity of JS + Web renderer) but its never seems to quite be able to reach the feature-set, polish & intelligence of JetBrains IDEs. Every IDE function appears to be better implemented in JetBrains, whether it's Code Analysis, Refactoring, Navigation, Running/Debuggi…

Not sure how many devs code in a single language these days. I go back/forth between Go, Dart, and C++ every day, so using one IDE like VSCode (with the familiar features from extensions to shortcuts to snippets) is a big help.

It’s worth noting you can set up shared settings between every Jetbrains IDE which will sync up all of your keybindings, color schemes, etc.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#188

Post by bootlooped »

cedricgle wrote: post #107

My take with VS Code is that their support of development container and ssh is the best and it's a killer feature. My ultimate goal for quite sometime now was to pack all my development dependencies inside containers or cloud-init files to keep my host bare-bone and have reproducible/shareable setups anywhere anytime. Before I was an Emacs fan. I tried multiple combination of Emacs, Tramp and containers but it failed…

I agree 100% that being able to work on a project that actually lives on a remote server, or on Windows subsystem for Linux, or in a container, is a killer feature. It's really awesome. It still wasn't enough to tear me away from GoLand though. I hope JetBrains implements something similar, I think they may have done so already in a limited way for certain languages, but it's not on VS Code's level if I recall correctly.

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#189

Post by _underfl0w_ »

eralps wrote: post #181
brandonmenc wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been using JetBrains IDEs for about a decade, after having used emacs for nearly two decades. I have never felt that JetBrains was slow, but I hear that a lot here. I'm curious what situations people are finding JetBrains' speed to be impacting usability.

Sometimes I just want to read code with highlighting. I want to open the project and search for some text in all the files. I don't want to wait for IntelliJ to take 30 seconds to open.

You could use grep with vim or nano for quick searches and viewing without even leaving your terminal. Why bother with a GUI at all for that use case?

Re: Reflections on IDEA vs VS Code

#190

Post by AndroidKitKat »

jeroenhd wrote: post #149

Offtopic: I can't seem to resolve this website through CloudFlare's DNS servers, what's going on here? Are they blocking Cloudflare's resolvers? Is there something wrong with Cloudflare? What is going on here? In my experience, IDEA is just better in the things it does well and just worse in the things it doesn't. Without spending days searching for extensions and configurations, Jetbrains' products beat Code every t…

Re: Offtopic

Yeah, the owner of those archive.* websites blocks CloudFlare DNS because of some hate-boner for CloudFlare [1]. Really unfortunate, honestly.

[1]: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19828317

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