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Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

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Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#631

Post by inglor_cz »

illirik wrote: post #592
anonisko wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people support the development of powerful weapons without considering what happens when their enemies get a hold of them.

The “weapon” here is just basic conscientiousness. A publisher decided to stop publishing some books because they denigrate people, and eBay decided that they did not want to be facilitating the sale of books that denigrate people. We are not talking about an H-bomb - there is no power structure wielding a “cancel button” here.

Using the word "denigrate" would be a reason to cancel you for some very conscientious minds. It sounds too similar to, ya know. And you aren't even talking Chinese [1]

[1] https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020/09/08/professor-sus...

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#633

Post by DrSiemer »

m8s wrote: post #614
CodeGlitch wrote: post #606

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes the old "just build your own internet" argument.

You can literally buy these books on Amazon right now. https://www.amazon.com/If-Ran-Zoo-Classic-Seuss/dp/039480081... This questionable book that Dr. Seuss Enterprises no longer wishes to publish can be at your front door tomorrow. Enjoy.

How long do you think it will be before Amazon follows suit?

Relegating books to a market outside of the largest sellers basically amounts to erasing them. Sure, in this case people could still find them, because they are from a famous author. But what about unknown writers, with views that don't align with what is approved by the PC crowd?

For the record, I have never read a Dr. Seuss book and don't encourage racial stereotyping, but there are other edgy subjects (like the legalization of certain substances) that I can imagine becoming less fashionable at some point in time. I don't want to see books supporting this idea suppressed at some point in the future.

We should be very careful with this new self regulating market, that follows the loudest outcry to determine what they allow to be sold.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#634

Post by Closi »

illirik wrote: post #595
minusSeven wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thing is there is thin line between moderation/regulation and censorship.

The line is rather stark. eBay choosing not to facilitate the sale of books containing racist caricatures is not in the same ballpark as a government suppressing ideas. It’s not even the same sport.

> eBay choosing not to facilitate the sale of books containing racist caricatures is not in the same ballpark as a government suppressing ideas.

The problem is that over time companies are consolidating into a few monopolies which are entirely out of public control, and these companies effectively control almost all distribution.

It depends what “power controlling entity” you see being the risk - is it the elected government or is it large powerful corporations with unelected leadership?

It is the same core sport, just a different team playing with less rules.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#635

Post by cygx »

wirrbel wrote: post #573
major505 wrote: post #96

I don't know any culture that banned books independent of their content that people didn't regret in the future. A few months ago I was reading about schools banning the book "To Kill a Mockingbird" because it contains basically the "n" word. I'm not american, and and havent read that book. I watched the movie, through, and it seemed to me to be a very anti racism message. I think instead of banning, schools should w…

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold (used copyright law to do that). I once stood in a book shop (teenager, time to look at books but not enough money to buy them) and some skindheads wanted to buy it, it wasn't available. They went away. Providing context is good, but frankly also really difficult and why not just provide newer childrens books that are more inclusive.

Germany here, we banned Mein Kampf from being sold

Not as such. Rather, the owner of the copyright - the state of Bavaria, where Hitler had his formal residence - decided not to allow reprints. The copyright expired in 2016, and a new, commented edition has been published which Germans can freely buy for 60€ in bookstores of their choice, including Amazon.

However, distribution for reasons other than educational purposes is potentially 'Volksverhetzung' and hence can be illegal depending on circumstances. But again, this is not a blanket ban on sale (except in case of minors as it's considered 'harmful to young persons'). This had already been tested in court in 1979, when the Bundesgerichtshof ruled you could legally own and sell historical copies of the book.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#636

Post by inglor_cz »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #574
lgleason wrote: post #562

As dis-heartening as this story is, compared to a couple of years ago, it is encouraging to see lots of comments from people beginning to wake up to what is going on with this craziness and not being modded here. Free speech is about protecting the right of the un-popular and views that some may find utterly repugnant. Why? because, as we are seeing with all of the woke craziness, when you don't stand up for everyone…

I don't really see anything to get excited about. It's just a sign that the pendulum is about to swing back in the other direction.

How?

So far, the big platforms seem to be digging the hole of censorship deeper, and small platforms like Parler are deplatformed.

Unless we find a way to circumvent the tight control that smartphone manufacturers have over devices they sell, the only possible haven of free speech would be web on a Windows PC with some specific browsers. Because Google adding you to a list of dirty webs means that people using Chrome won't get to your website.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#637

Post by Shugarl »

Fezzik wrote: post #61
supernova87a wrote: post #55

Now this part is getting a little too carried away. It is one thing for libraries and bookstores to decide not to offer for borrowing or sale things that they disagree with. It is another (and overstepping imo) for Ebay to restrict individual people from selling to others goods that are not illegal or in violation of their other practical rules (no selling jewelry, monetary equivalents, etc). This falls into the cate…

and from a platform that still allows Mein Kampf to be listed it seems especially idiotic... Edit, to add: as a comment below notes eBay only allows annotated versions of the book. So maybe they are consistent; I didn’t click through any of the listings when I searched. I also have no idea how you annotate Mein Kampf to not be racist/anti-Semitic propaganda...

Mein Kampf isn't a children book though. In addition to the be fact that the books are annotated, those who are going to read it will be of enough to get the context surrounding this book

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#638

Post by illirik »

Number157 wrote: post #630
illirik wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The “weapon” here is just basic conscientiousness. A publisher decided to stop publishing some books because they denigrate people, and eBay decided that they did not want to be facilitating the sale of books that denigrate people. We are not talking about an H-bomb - there is no power structure wielding a “cancel button” here.

The weapon is censorship. Dictatorial governments supported by control over information have killed far more people than H-bombs.

What information in these children's books is undermining dictatorial governments? The government isn't censoring e.g. Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States or Solzhenitsyn's Gulag Archipelago - these are literally just picture books with racist caricatures in them. You have no right to shout "fire" in a crowded theater, and you have no right to denigrate your fellow man.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#639

Post by 4ggr0 »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #267
major505 wrote: post #96

I don't know any culture that banned books independent of their content that people didn't regret in the future. A few months ago I was reading about schools banning the book "To Kill a Mockingbird" because it contains basically the "n" word. I'm not american, and and havent read that book. I watched the movie, through, and it seemed to me to be a very anti racism message. I think instead of banning, schools should w…

The word you are referring to is nigger. It’s a bad word that can be very offensive. It’s horrible to use it in a derogatory way, but I feel that it’s ridiculous in at least halfway intelligent conversation no one white even dare ever write it, let alone say it. As if white people have enforced themselves to just pretend the word has magic powers and it is the one who shall not be named. That’s giving an enormous amo…

There are two things I can't quite comprehend as someone who's not from the US.

* Why exactly the n-word is exclusive to black people. In my mind, either no one uses the word if it's offensive, or everyone can use it in a neutral way. I don't know of any other single word which is gatekept. I mean, I never want to use it, so it's not about that. I guess it has to do with pride and being able to use a word which was once used to insult you. Maybe it gives power, don't know. But it can't be that clear, seeing as how the whole world seems to be confused about the reasoning and usage of this word. Essentially, I don't really mind that I can't say it, but I just don't understand it.

* Cultural appropriation - I see people get cancelled for wearing, eating or celebrating things which aren't "from their culture". This is so shocking to me and sounds like something fashists would say. "Keep to your cultures and races", wtf? It also seems to be very one-sided. I understand it if we talk about sacred things, native american headwear as an example. But things like food, hair styles and certain clothing? Just seems to divide people more. Isn't it a better sign if I as a white dude like other cultures food, clothing etc.? That should signal to these cultures that I appreciate, accept and like them, right?

Again, I'm white and from europe and I know that these are very sensitive and hot topics.

Re: Dr. Seuss books deemed offensive will be delisted from eBay

#640

Post by PontifexMinimus »

illirik wrote: post #592
anonisko wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Too many people support the development of powerful weapons without considering what happens when their enemies get a hold of them.

The “weapon” here is just basic conscientiousness. A publisher decided to stop publishing some books because they denigrate people, and eBay decided that they did not want to be facilitating the sale of books that denigrate people. We are not talking about an H-bomb - there is no power structure wielding a “cancel button” here.

> there is no power structure wielding a “cancel button” here

This is hardly an isolated occurrance, as you well know.

So we have all of Big Tech acting in concert to ban what they deem wrongthink -- but, oh no, that's definitely not a power structure! Nothing to see here, folks!

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