Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

sciencedirect.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 436 posts

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#281

Post by naraga »

karpour wrote: post #269
naraga wrote: post #80

It is year 2021 and people still think Bitcoin is boiling the oceans. Bitcoin is the greenest think on this planet. Economic empowerment it brings to individual together with energy extraction innovations is just beyond imagination of most people in this forum.

Ah yes, the greenest "think" on the planet, consuming 130TWh of energy per year and rising. Do you even think what you write? We don't need Bitcoin, global energy usage rises without Bitcoin as well. But sure, go live in your little bubble where Bitcoin is the currency that solves all of society's problems, will forever rise in value and save the planet!

Energy consumption != carbon footprint

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#282

Post by tekknik »

read_if_gay_ wrote: post #274
tekknik wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...of a published study. The only reason people are defending GP now is because the subject is BTC.

Just because it's a published study does not mean it's infallible. Please see my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26342411

Your counter is just as flawed as you have no way to verify any miners are using renewables. Power transmission is a thing (California does it) and if we weren’t using the power to mine BTC it could be used to power other things. Again, people are only arguing for BTC on this site because it’s hacker news, nothing else.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#283

Post by p_l »

yona wrote: post #210

Ok, assuming for a moment this is true, I never hear anyone talk about how much energy bank branches and ATMs consume. Everything needs the Internet, servers, etc to function. That requires electricity. BTC or cryptos aren’t the problem. Focus on sustainability of energy production, renewables.

They do - by comparison, existing financial systems use much less energy, which is why a popular "argument" is to claim that you should count military expenditures into it (which honestly makes no sense unless you believe in some weird axioms...)

Another issue is that BTC siphons off the build up in green energy by wasting it - without miners setting up shop close by to turn your green energy into heat, you have to ensure you have either someone else nearby to sell (lots of real world focus on hydrogen energy storage recently as way to capture such excess) or invest in transfer capacity to clients.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#284

Post by Bluestein »

acd wrote: post #189

System engineer here: An Issue I have with the whole economic system is that external cost to the environment is not priced correctly. I think that crypto currencies is a good thing but must move from proof of work so something which consumes less energy, I think the fix is that you price negative carbon in the atmosphere, carbon capacity and you pay for all carbon you emit. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigovian_tax…

> think that crypto currencies is a good thing but must move from proof of work [to] something which consumes less energy,

My thoughts exactly.-

(Less energy, and is better overall / more advanced / capable ...)

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#285

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

noxer wrote: post #251
BenoitEssiambre wrote: post #126

While this is sad, this is a self correcting problem. Miners and other people using bitcoins are going to get tired at some point of the loss from buying all this energy to keep their bitcoin assets going. The most scary part of cryptocoins is the deflationary cycle that makes these crypto asset potentially displace productive investment on an economy wide scale. This is not self correcting. This is Moloch, it's a pr…

Don't worry it IS defensively self correcting no matter who joins and for what reason. To keep it going forever it would need endless quadratic grows which is not possible. Also there are solutions without PoW/PoS, they use FBA instead. As soon as they take over for any actual use, the energy wasting will come to an end.

I mean, it _is_ going to eventually self correct. The question is, could it go on until causing another great depression and wwIII before it does?

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#286

Post by shawnz »

neilwilson wrote: post #198
shawnz wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply take a moment to see how that argument works with other kinds of assets and you will see how it doesn't make any sense. Gold is a speculative asset that also has some limited tangible uses too. So does that mean gold has less reasons to decrease in price than an asset which only has tangible uses and no speculation?

Try it for certain vintages of fine wine. The same as Bitcoin. Over time the quantity available for sale decreases due to loss. People lose their keys and the coins get lost. People drink the wine. Both naturally reduces supply driving up the price of the remainder. BTC is a one way bet, right up to the point where people decide it isn't worth holding any more. Just like certain vintages of wine.

Sure, the fair value might slowly climb over time due to losses, but that has nothing to do with the fact that it's the target of a lot of speculation.

The fact that there is some small rate of losses doesn't significantly impact the amount of downside speculation you'd expect.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#287

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

FDSGSG wrote: post #185
konjin wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Smaller than the energy required to run Ireland, unlike bitcoin. An algorithm designed to be wasteful in energy wasting energy is not something we should be shocked at.

The US military certainly consumes more energy than Ireland.

Is it your contention that the sole purpose of the US military is to back the value of a dollar? Because if that is the case, and you are still unable to see why people think you're silly, then there is little hope for you.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#288

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

ngneer wrote: post #194

All money has cost. How does Bitcoin cost compare to the cost of the mint and keeping dollars in circulation?

Arguments like this are evidence that many BTC enthusiasts are at least as delusional as people who insist the 2020 US election was massively rigged.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#289

Post by read_if_gay_ »

tekknik wrote: post #282
read_if_gay_ wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because it's a published study does not mean it's infallible. Please see my reply to https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26342411

Your counter is just as flawed as you have no way to verify any miners are using renewables. Power transmission is a thing (California does it) and if we weren’t using the power to mine BTC it could be used to power other things. Again, people are only arguing for BTC on this site because it’s hacker news, nothing else.

> Your counter is just as flawed as you have no way to verify any miners are using renewables.

Then any "published study" on this topic is automatically going to be flawed as well?

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#290

Post by malthaus »

Pungsnigel wrote: post #38
te_chris wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh please. It has almost no use as a currency, it's the rise of an asset bubble.

Still has usage as a potential store of value and a means of cheap global transfers. My mother in law use it monthly to transfer money to her home (third world) country, which is crazy easy and cheap compared to traditional means.

Please stop those myths - cheap global transfers is not something that needs cryptocurrencies for it to happen, this can and will work within the current rails.
Post reply on HN