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Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

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Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most of this electricity comes from the cheapest source of power, which is hydro. This has become almost a religious belief amongst cryptocurrency acolytes, but it's simply not true. -- Edit: please see my comment¹ and piplikoc's comment² below for more detail on this. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26342411 2. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26342366

Do you deny that hydro is cheap or do you claim that miners choose to use power in more expensive locations?

Miners don't care/get a choice. They plug their machines into the nearest wall socket.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#122

The rise of Bitcoin is a reflection of low trust in the existing currencies. Low trust leads to inefficiency.

Cryptobots really believe this? Even as a European citizen, I have faith that the US Dollar will stay the US dollar, and keep value. The Euro will keep being the Euro. Hell, even the Yuan will stay the Yuan. Just accept that you're willing to shit on the planet to make a few bucks, it's fine.

As European citizen I don't really trust the Euros or Dollars. Just think about the loss in value If you own money. Even if the official 2% inflation, its still 2% lost of value. And now with Corona they printing billions of Euros and the inlfation will stay at 2% ... sure.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#123

The rise of Bitcoin is a reflection of low trust in the existing currencies. Low trust leads to inefficiency.

Absolutely not. Bitcoin’s value increases because it’s a speculative asset and there’s almost zero reasons for it to go down since it’s not really tied to anything tangible.

Simply take a moment to see how that argument works with other kinds of assets and you will see how it doesn't make any sense.

Gold is a speculative asset that also has some limited tangible uses too. So does that mean gold has less reasons to decrease in price than an asset which only has tangible uses and no speculation?

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#126
While this is sad, this is a self correcting problem. Miners and other people using bitcoins are going to get tired at some point of the loss from buying all this energy to keep their bitcoin assets going.

The most scary part of cryptocoins is the deflationary cycle that makes these crypto asset potentially displace productive investment on an economy wide scale.

This is not self correcting. This is Moloch, it's a prisoner's dilemma, a bad Nash equilibrium where the incentives are to keep the vicious cycle going as long as possible because the first to leave the cycle are disadvantaged.

This is mostly a worry if many companies do like Tesla and jump on the band wagon. They may be tempted at an economy wide scale to reduce investment in production in order to hoard cryptocoins instead. This dynamic caused the great depression in the 1930s when businesses switched to hoarding gold tied currency instead of producing.

Now I'm not sure that crypto coins without being jacked up by central banks (like gold was during the great depression) are a powerful enough force to cause the type of havoc that gold did.

Then again, the potentially stronger network/memetic effects of cryptocoins, along with the amplification factor from markets being synchronized through instant global communications nowadays might make them dangerous to the economy even without central bank involvement. We saw how much people got hypnotized during the Gamestop episode. I don't think unsophisticated investors' hoarding is enough to cause problems but it is a bit unsettling that Tesla and other companies are starting to hoard. If enough businesses follow suit, you get into scary territory (It would also be worrisome if companies widely moved to add billions in gold to their balance sheet but the lesson has been learned in the 1930s with gold).

In theory, if central banks stay stimulative enough through all this, you can maintain growth in both productive businesses and crypto. As long as these central banks don't flinch at the sight of what may look like crypto bubbles.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#127
post #80

It is year 2021 and people still think Bitcoin is boiling the oceans. Bitcoin is the greenest think on this planet. Economic empowerment it brings to individual together with energy extraction innovations is just beyond imagination of most people in this forum.

There are literally thousands of alternatives to Bitcoin, who bring the same "economic empowerment".

I can get instant, zero comission transfers with Nano, without banks. I assume there are many other cryptos like this one.

As skeptic I am about the survival of cryptos to regulators and big whales, I am actually using Nano to transfer money to people in LATAM, but as far as it becomes volatile or if it changed and had feeds, I'd just abandon it.

What's the point of bitcoin now, seriously. POW, very slow, very high transactions fees... ¿What does Bitcoin bring to the table? "Adoption" one would say, but no one is using Bitcoin to pay for anything, so the crypto enthusiasts changed the narrative to "store of value".

There are far better choices than bitcoin in and out of the crypto ecosystem for pretty much every use-case you can imagine. And the only reasons Bitcoin isn't in the ground it's because there's a lot of people invested with hope of selling for a profit.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#128

This is about the furthest thing from “science”. Just sensationalist propaganda. It’s so far from being even remotely plausible. Maybe 1 BTC is responsible for $0.49 of “damage” if you could ever actually quantify it. Most of this electricity comes from the cheapest source of power, which is hydro.

> Most of this electricity comes from the cheapest source of power, which is hydro.

This is not actually true. And even if it were, it is irrelevant. If crypto uses green energy, it displaces other users to use more dirty energy.

The environmental cost of crypto is not that of the energy it uses, it is that of the dirtiest energy it displaces other users onto.

(Crypto also uses massive amounts of dirty energy directly. The idea that crypto uses green energy is basically a lie.)

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#129

All these Crypto posts are getting pretty tiring.

What's special about today and increasing frequency of these posts?

Nothing else to talk about I guess. Coming on a year for pandemic restrictions in US/much of the west.

Re: Every $1 of BTC value responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages in US

#130

> responsible for $0.49 in health and climate damages red flag this article is steeped in pseudoscience. you could spend a lifetime trying to model and predict global weather patterns _with no outside intervention_. the idea that you could even make an attempt at attaching a number to this phenomena is laughable. what are the error bars here, 10,000%? lets pretend, for example, you tried to estimate the impact of tsu…

This is not just some article, it's a peer-reviewed study from the University of Arizona. Surely it has fault, but honestly I don't think a "cursory glance at wikipedia" provides a compelling counterargument
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