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The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

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Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, your assessment is very correct. There will be no solution and only a slow decline as previous systems become obsolete and there no on to fix or upgrade to better systems. This country is producing more Tik Tok stars than engineers that can sustain civilization.

What a confident proclamation that is backed up by nothing, aside from your limited perspective.

Name a successful plane developed recently by US military or commercial enterprises?

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#52

> ... Air Force’s Rapid Sustainment Office (RSO) was looking to industry for a “cutting-edge, automated 3D scanning system,” specifically intended to replicate aircraft parts that are no longer in production, including at maintenance depots. You see the real issue? Even if they have the blueprints, it will be difficult to even manufacture the parts here. There's so many more problems like this coming down the pipelin…

Yet just landed on Mars, bringing a helicopter. Please don't spread FUD.

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#53
post #3

Reverse engineering seems like a good skillset for the DoD to nurture, anyway. Yes, the US is going to be at the cutting edge of weapons design at least through the medium term, but the leadership isn't arrogant enough to think that all engineering innovations will come domestically. If the US acquired a next-generation Chinese fighter, wouldn't it be handy if someone had the expertise to tell you exactly how its par…

I wish my tax dollars were going to some galaxy-brain forward thinking group of men and women capable of making such reverse engineering challenges for itself; but it almost certainly is the case that what looks like sheer incompetence is just that.

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works with the government a fair bit, this kind of forward thinking is extremely unlikely to be the case. This is the kind of government competence that only exists in the most wild conspiracy theories. The idea that it was made by some long defunct subcontractor and nobody knows what happened to their blueprints and production notes is far more likely. Also, even if you had the blueprints you still ne…

My dad was talking to an engineer at one of the major airlines manufactures apparently some critical part was foam injection or some such. Anyway the process as such did not work as documented. You had to add strings to the inside of the mold to get it to set correctly. This was not written down anywhere. Part of it may have been job protection. The union was bad about that. New hires would not be able to complete th…

It's also possible it was "Hey! The foam injection machine isn't working, I've tried everything", "There's this string trick I used once, try that", "Great, that fixed it, we should document that", "Sure, once we get all parts made that have backed up"

Or, maybe I'm reading bad practices in my industry to everywhere else.

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#55
post #41

Somethign I haven't seen mentioned here is that the technology used to design this thing is waaaaaaaaaaaay old. I know for a fact it was designed on an IBM mainframe (dad ran the one that the YF-22 was designed on). I can't remember what CAD package they used there, but its definitely conceivable that the software doesn't even exist anymore. How would you go about building a new one if you can't read the CAD files, i…

Reverse engineering the files night be easier than reverse engineering the airplane.

Says the guy not constantly surrounded by aerospace engineers :)

What are the odds someone said the phrase "those parts? I could mock up copies in a weekend!"

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My dad was talking to an engineer at one of the major airlines manufactures apparently some critical part was foam injection or some such. Anyway the process as such did not work as documented. You had to add strings to the inside of the mold to get it to set correctly. This was not written down anywhere. Part of it may have been job protection. The union was bad about that. New hires would not be able to complete th…

It's also possible it was "Hey! The foam injection machine isn't working, I've tried everything", "There's this string trick I used once, try that", "Great, that fixed it, we should document that", "Sure, once we get all parts made that have backed up" Or, maybe I'm reading bad practices in my industry to everywhere else.

I would be very interested in reading case studies where a company both does documentation well and does not get bogged down in vast amounts of paperwork.

As yes, plenty of fixes for things are not written down anywhere.

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#57

> ... Air Force’s Rapid Sustainment Office (RSO) was looking to industry for a “cutting-edge, automated 3D scanning system,” specifically intended to replicate aircraft parts that are no longer in production, including at maintenance depots. You see the real issue? Even if they have the blueprints, it will be difficult to even manufacture the parts here. There's so many more problems like this coming down the pipelin…

I don't understand why you are getting downvoted.

Being unable to manufactures things we did in the past is extremely worrying

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works with the government a fair bit, this kind of forward thinking is extremely unlikely to be the case. This is the kind of government competence that only exists in the most wild conspiracy theories. The idea that it was made by some long defunct subcontractor and nobody knows what happened to their blueprints and production notes is far more likely. Also, even if you had the blueprints you still ne…

My dad was talking to an engineer at one of the major airlines manufactures apparently some critical part was foam injection or some such. Anyway the process as such did not work as documented. You had to add strings to the inside of the mold to get it to set correctly. This was not written down anywhere. Part of it may have been job protection. The union was bad about that. New hires would not be able to complete th…

It might have been protectionism, but also life is just complicated. Documentation is always incomplete and much of it is out of date as soon as you write it down. Humans have so many cognitive biases, we don't even notice half the things we do.

Many scientific studies cannot be replicated either due to errors or ambiguous steps.

You only have what you test. If you want working documentation, you have to do a blind test. That can be pretty dang expensive, and most people don't think that way. Running production is heavily motivated to just keep running, and not worry too much about all of the potential problems - there are just too many potential problems.

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who works with the government a fair bit, this kind of forward thinking is extremely unlikely to be the case. This is the kind of government competence that only exists in the most wild conspiracy theories. The idea that it was made by some long defunct subcontractor and nobody knows what happened to their blueprints and production notes is far more likely. Also, even if you had the blueprints you still ne…

My dad was talking to an engineer at one of the major airlines manufactures apparently some critical part was foam injection or some such. Anyway the process as such did not work as documented. You had to add strings to the inside of the mold to get it to set correctly. This was not written down anywhere. Part of it may have been job protection. The union was bad about that. New hires would not be able to complete th…

Conversely, a lot of management have zero interest in knowing this kind of detail. It may not be possible to get the info fed back. People may be punished for not following the process, even if it's impossible to get the job done by following it exactly ( this is a very common dysfunction!)

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#60
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's impossible to overstate how long these things have been in service. The oldest B-52 airframes still in active service were built longer ago than the first flight of the Wright brothers was when they were built.

And likely to be in service for another 30 years. A 100 year airframe

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