The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber • Hacker News Board

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#41

Post by folli » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

mgarfias wrote: post #32

Somethign I haven't seen mentioned here is that the technology used to design this thing is waaaaaaaaaaaay old. I know for a fact it was designed on an IBM mainframe (dad ran the one that the YF-22 was designed on). I can't remember what CAD package they used there, but its definitely conceivable that the software doesn't even exist anymore. How would you go about building a new one if you can't read the CAD files, i…

Reverse engineering the files night be easier than reverse engineering the airplane.

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#42

Post by YesThatTom2 » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:29 PM UTC

Why is the government allowed to reverse engineer AND create laws making it difficult for citizens to do so?

Obviously the answer is that it is legal to reverse engineer something if you own it.

That said... I think there's an opportunity here:

EFF and other pro-reverse engineering organizations should sue and demand that the DOD follow the same laws that citizens follow.

If they lose the lawsuit, it be great ammunition (so to speak) for stopping anti-reverse engineering laws.

If they win... bonus!

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#43

Post by austinshea » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:31 PM UTC

wwww4alll wrote: post #37

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #18

> ... Air Force’s Rapid Sustainment Office (RSO) was looking to industry for a “cutting-edge, automated 3D scanning system,” specifically intended to replicate aircraft parts that are no longer in production, including at maintenance depots. You see the real issue? Even if they have the blueprints, it will be difficult to even manufacture the parts here. There's so many more problems like this coming down the pipelin…

Unfortunately, your assessment is very correct. There will be no solution and only a slow decline as previous systems become obsolete and there no on to fix or upgrade to better systems. This country is producing more Tik Tok stars than engineers that can sustain civilization.

What a confident proclamation that is backed up by nothing, aside from your limited perspective.

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#44

Post by cratermoon » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:32 PM UTC

time0ut wrote: post #17

dmurray wrote: post #3

Reverse engineering seems like a good skillset for the DoD to nurture, anyway. Yes, the US is going to be at the cutting edge of weapons design at least through the medium term, but the leadership isn't arrogant enough to think that all engineering innovations will come domestically. If the US acquired a next-generation Chinese fighter, wouldn't it be handy if someone had the expertise to tell you exactly how its par…

I don't think we need the tinfoil hat. This sort of thing happens sometimes. Like the time we forgot how to may part of our thermonuclear weapons and had to reverse engineer that [0]. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FOGBANK

Wikipedia calls it an "aerogel", but rumors have it originally being closer to ordinary "closed-cell extruded polystyrene foam", which is often sold under the brand name Styrofoam. It might be something else entirely now. It's role is said to be absorbing the x-rays generated by the fission stage and turning into a plasma to help ignite the fusion stage. Edit: https://www.armscontrolwonk.com/archive/201814/fogbank/

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#45

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

YesThatTom2 wrote: post #42

Why is the government allowed to reverse engineer AND create laws making it difficult for citizens to do so? Obviously the answer is that it is legal to reverse engineer something if you own it. That said... I think there's an opportunity here: EFF and other pro-reverse engineering organizations should sue and demand that the DOD follow the same laws that citizens follow. If they lose the lawsuit, it be great ammunit…

[deleted]

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#46

Post by rstupek » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:35 PM UTC

aphextron wrote: post #20

Jtsummers wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to check, it's not as ancient as some other bombers with B-2 first flight occurring in 1989. I met a pilot who flew on the same B-52 as his father, and his grandfather had flown some of the first B-52s. This was in the 00s, about 15-18 years ago.

It's impossible to overstate how long these things have been in service. The oldest B-52 airframes still in active service were built longer ago than the first flight of the Wright brothers was when they were built.

And likely to be in service for another 30 years. A 100 year airframe

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#47

Post by Daho0n » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:42 PM UTC

whalesalad wrote: post #4

The B-2 is ancient, doesn't seem very surprising.

It first flew 31 years ago. If that is ancient what is the F-16 that first flew 49 years ago?

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#48

Post by KineticLensman » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:43 PM UTC

est31 wrote: post #31

tablespoon wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think we need the tinfoil hat. This sort of thing happens sometimes. Like the time we forgot how to may part of our thermonuclear weapons and had to reverse engineer that [0]. The really interesting thing about that is one of the main things they had to reverse-engineer was an impurity in one of the ingredients that the original designers didn't even know they were depending on.

Reminds me of how NASA had to design completely new rocket engines for SLS because while they still had the plans for the Saturn-V rocket engines, back then plans weren't followed to such high accuracy as nowadays a 3D model would be followed. Each engine was custom tailored with small modifications here and there. The knowledge to custom tailor them was lost, so they went with designing new engines from scratch inst…

> Each engine was custom tailored with small modifications here and there

This was true of lots of things outside NASA. This was one of the problems that killed the UK attempt to modernise the Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft [0]. They wanted to fit new wings to the old planes, but only discovered after the contract had been signed that the different airframes had not been built identically, but were different interpretations of a common plan. Each of the nine planes was in effect a completely new refit challenge.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BAE_Systems_Nimrod_MRA4

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#49

Post by elevaet » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

The only possible explanation is that the Stealth Bomber was indeed crafted using alien technology. /s

Re: The Air Force is having to reverse engineer parts of its own stealth bomber

#50

Post by Jtsummers » Wed, Mar 03, 2021, 9:45 PM UTC

YesThatTom2 wrote: post #42

Why is the government allowed to reverse engineer AND create laws making it difficult for citizens to do so? Obviously the answer is that it is legal to reverse engineer something if you own it. That said... I think there's an opportunity here: EFF and other pro-reverse engineering organizations should sue and demand that the DOD follow the same laws that citizens follow. If they lose the lawsuit, it be great ammunit…

> EFF and other pro-reverse engineering organizations should sue and demand that the DOD follow the same laws that citizens follow.

They'd have to have standing for such a suit and they have none. NG and others involved in the design and manufacturing might have standing, but they're also unlikely to sue. This is not a novel activity for DOD.