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Killing TurboTax

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Re: Killing TurboTax

#391

Post by masklinn »

astura wrote: post #309
bob1029 wrote: post #298

"Killing TurboTax" is essentially a meme until we meaningfully simplify the tax code. There is no software development team on earth who could catch up with the full capabilities of TurboTax without some sort of fundamental shift in the business. I really hate to say this as someone who makes a living out of it, but dealing with the current amount of complexity in the tax code with a piece of software that a non-expe…

The IRS themselves need to provide this "auto tax" service.

> The IRS themselves need to provide this "auto tax" service.

Interestingly, they now can: under the Free File program, tax prep companies would offer free filing (for taxpayers below 72k AGI) and the IRS would not compete with their service.

After a ProPublica investigation in their dark pattern shenanigans (leading to about 3.5% of taxpayers to use the program when 70% are eligible) confirmed by the HSGA Senate Committee and NYS DFS, the IRS both updated its rule to preclude e.g. hiding Free File programs for search engine, and removed the rule which prevented them from competing.

Sadly the IRS has been hamstrung time and again by the GOP, both financially and politically. They can't even do their core jobs of collecting tax and auditing the taxpayers they need to, so it's unlikely they'll have the clout and funds to set up a free filing program any time soon, let alone one properly integrated with their likely antiquated and in dire need of updates computer systems.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#392

Post by tomjakubowski »

sokoloff wrote: post #368
harperlee wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask examples of things that you are not confident sharing with the IRS, that you do not have the obligation to share with the IRS, and that can affect the taxes you owe? In my (foreign) mind, whatever might affect your obligation final number you are legally required to do so (either preemptively or when asked), so I don't fully understand.

Many things that I tell my preparer are needed later, but not now. (Tax basis for RSUs that vested. Value of capital improvements to my property.) Other things are needed only if we elect to method A of calculation, but not if we use method B of calculation. So I give him all the data; he computes my obligations using method A and method B, chooses the better option, and reports only the data needed to support that m…

Then let the government distribute this hypothetical preparation software as free software. It could therefore be verified that you're not telling the state more than you want them to know.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#393

Post by Larrikin »

sokoloff wrote: post #368
harperlee wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

May I ask examples of things that you are not confident sharing with the IRS, that you do not have the obligation to share with the IRS, and that can affect the taxes you owe? In my (foreign) mind, whatever might affect your obligation final number you are legally required to do so (either preemptively or when asked), so I don't fully understand.

Many things that I tell my preparer are needed later, but not now. (Tax basis for RSUs that vested. Value of capital improvements to my property.) Other things are needed only if we elect to method A of calculation, but not if we use method B of calculation. So I give him all the data; he computes my obligations using method A and method B, chooses the better option, and reports only the data needed to support that m…

You are making an argument for a simplified tax code and reporting system.

The not needed now but maybe later financials should already be reported by the financial institution to the tax agencies.

There should not exist a system where there is a method A, B or C and if you have thousands of dollars a tax accountant can find all the loop holes to make you pay the least. You should just pay what is owed, not more or less.

You wouldn't pay for tax preparation if the potential savings weren't more than what you pay him. With a simplified system there also wouldn't be much need for the audit help you are usually offered when using their assistant

Re: Killing TurboTax

#394

Post by peter303 »

azog_alone wrote: post #316
bob1029 wrote: post #298

"Killing TurboTax" is essentially a meme until we meaningfully simplify the tax code. There is no software development team on earth who could catch up with the full capabilities of TurboTax without some sort of fundamental shift in the business. I really hate to say this as someone who makes a living out of it, but dealing with the current amount of complexity in the tax code with a piece of software that a non-expe…

The reason the tax code is so complicated is BECAUSE OF TurboTax. They lobby heavily to keep things complex and have brought down potential competitors through legal means. As such, "killing TurboTax" is the correct first step.

Not Turbox, but Congress. They promise new credits and deductions every election cycle. Every couple decades there are weak attempts to weed out some of these such as for the Reagan and Trump tax reforms.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#395

Post by masklinn »

sokoloff wrote: post #343
astura wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it can work with the complicated path too, they present you with what they already know about you and give you the opportunity to add more information that they don't yet know. They then calculate what you owe and tell you. At some point they are going to calculate what you owe based on what you provide them and what is reported to them, no matter what. Laws that authorize "auto tax" can also come with extra repo…

There is a much greater depth of detail that I provide to my tax preparer than I'd be willing to share with the IRS. I tell my tax preparer everything and have perfect confidence that my taxes will be prepared correctly and in accordance with the tax code and that nothing which is not required to be disclosed will be disclosed. Much of what I provide to my preparer is irrelevant to my tax obligations and anything tha…

> There is a much greater depth of detail that I provide to my tax preparer than I'd be willing to share with the IRS. I tell my tax preparer everything and have perfect confidence that my taxes will be prepared correctly and in accordance with the tax code and that nothing which is not required to be disclosed will be disclosed. Much of what I provide to my preparer is irrelevant to my tax obligations and anything that's irrelevant I would prefer not be disclosed.

Cool beans. Literally nothing preclude you using a tax prep service but using the IRS's tax declaration system, which would double up as a simple tax prep system.

That's what happens just about everywhere in Europe: you log in a dedicated government service, and you do your tax declaration. All the stuff the government knows about (salary, loan deductions, dependents, …) is already input, but nothing precludes drilling down and updating details. Nothing is lost compared to a paper declaration.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#396

Post by mandelbrotwurst »

dsr_ wrote: post #364
mandelbrotwurst wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By “and a student” do you mean claimed as a dependent by someone else?

Yes, because if you aren't a dependent, it's income for your own return, not theirs.

Cool, yeah just wanted to clarify so the comment didn't confuse any non-dependent students.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#397

Post by samstave »

coldpie wrote: post #72
xrd wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> please don't use this software to file your taxes for the 2020 / 2021 tax season. I wonder if there is a PR that Intuit filed to add this to the readme. Seriously, I wonder how much money Intuit has spent to terrify people into using their software. Each year, I look around for alternatives so I can avoid giving them money, and each year I find some reason to grow fearful of an IRS audit and go with the company tha…

Unless you really screw up[1], or are intentionally trying to screw the IRS[2], you don't have to worry about an audit. The IRS's goal isn't to bring down their wrath upon you, their goal is to accurately collect the taxes they are due. If you pay too little, they'll ask you to pay the difference. If you pay too much, they'll refund it. Really: I once used the single-payer tax table instead of the filing-jointly tax…

>>**the taxes they are due**

Please explain to me why they are *DUE* said taxes...

What is the gas tax for, what is it intended to perform

What is the lottery tax for, what is it intended to perform

What is income/state taxes intended to perform

Where are the metrics for what tax==intent==outcome results?

Please - give me a detailed response.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#398

Post by codegeek »

bob1029 wrote: post #298

"Killing TurboTax" is essentially a meme until we meaningfully simplify the tax code. There is no software development team on earth who could catch up with the full capabilities of TurboTax without some sort of fundamental shift in the business. I really hate to say this as someone who makes a living out of it, but dealing with the current amount of complexity in the tax code with a piece of software that a non-expe…

Agreed. This is primarily not a "software" problem. Unless we simplify our tax codes in the US, tools like turbotax will stay. In fact, to be honest, turbotax was great when I used it last in 2009ish (I know they got acquired by Intuit and have gone downhill due to Intuit ) but the point is that it is overall an excellent software that really makes it easy to calculate and file things based on current tax codes. I would love to not have that dependency but that's not possible only when the tax codes are simplified.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#399

Post by executesorder66 »

astura wrote: post #309
bob1029 wrote: post #298

"Killing TurboTax" is essentially a meme until we meaningfully simplify the tax code. There is no software development team on earth who could catch up with the full capabilities of TurboTax without some sort of fundamental shift in the business. I really hate to say this as someone who makes a living out of it, but dealing with the current amount of complexity in the tax code with a piece of software that a non-expe…

The IRS themselves need to provide this "auto tax" service.

We have this in South Africa. It was always easy to do your taxes before, but since last year they do what they call an "Auto assessment". The South African Revenue Service collects all the documents they need (payslips, medical aid, pension etc.) from the respective organizations, fills out the tax form for you, and lets you know it's ready.

I logged in to check that they did it correctly, which they did, and approved it. Literally took ten minutes. Nine of which were just reviewing all the fields on the form.

Obviously this does not work for people who have very complex/unusual tax situations, but for your average person it's great.

Re: Killing TurboTax

#400

Post by ralphc »

sokoloff wrote: post #343
astura wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it can work with the complicated path too, they present you with what they already know about you and give you the opportunity to add more information that they don't yet know. They then calculate what you owe and tell you. At some point they are going to calculate what you owe based on what you provide them and what is reported to them, no matter what. Laws that authorize "auto tax" can also come with extra repo…

There is a much greater depth of detail that I provide to my tax preparer than I'd be willing to share with the IRS. I tell my tax preparer everything and have perfect confidence that my taxes will be prepared correctly and in accordance with the tax code and that nothing which is not required to be disclosed will be disclosed. Much of what I provide to my preparer is irrelevant to my tax obligations and anything tha…

Also, don't forget the IRS has a quasi-adversarial relationship with you. You're trying to pay as little tax as legally allowed, they want you to pay more. They're not motivated to show you ways to pay less tax.
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