Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut • Hacker News Board

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#431

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:10 PM UTC

cyberlurker wrote: post #418

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. The way I think of it, pigs are very intelligent, more intelligent than dogs. However, humans are more intelligent. If pigs were more intelligent, pigs would eat humans. And that's not a figure of speech. Pig would eat us if they could. They wouldn't stop and think, gee, does this little baby human girl cry because it doesn't want to be eaten, maybe…

I share this view but also add that I’d like to reduce the cruelty to the pig or any animal. We all die and are food for something eventually. But not everyone gets a good existence and I wish they did. If the pig gets to roll around in some nice mud and sunbath for a few years that will make me feel better. I don’t care if the pig wouldn’t do the same for me, but I wish it would.

Yes, that goes without saying; yet let it be said: we should take the utmost care to cause the least suffering possible to the animals we keep for food.

One reason why industrial farming must be abolished, because it is exactly the kind of thing that encourages cruel and inhuman treatment of animals. Incidentally abolishing industrial farming would also help with environmental targets etc.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#432

Post by Falling3 » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:11 PM UTC

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #398

gonehome wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "On a side note: I'm not vegetarian. I simply agree with those who are." This was my position for a long time until finally making the jump at the beginning of the pandemic (vegetarian, will rarely eat fish sometimes). For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the envi…

>> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. The way I think of it, pigs are very intelligent, more intelligent than dogs. However, humans are more intelligent. If pigs were more intelligent, pigs would eat humans. And that's not a figure of speech. Pig would eat us if they could. They wouldn't stop and think, gee, does this little baby human girl cry because it doesn't want to be eaten, maybe…

I hear this kind of reasoning often, but I don't believe anyone is willing to apply it outside of food.

Yes, many non-human animals would eat you if given the opportunity. Some species of large cats might also kill you for amusement. Does that fact justify you doing the same? Many animals might try to copulate with you. Does that justify bestiality?

And if you're comfortable with moral arguments based on reciprocity, where does that leave humans such as babies? They certainly cannot extend any moral consideration to you, but I assume you're willing to overlook that?

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#433

Post by Falling3 » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

cyberlurker wrote: post #418

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. The way I think of it, pigs are very intelligent, more intelligent than dogs. However, humans are more intelligent. If pigs were more intelligent, pigs would eat humans. And that's not a figure of speech. Pig would eat us if they could. They wouldn't stop and think, gee, does this little baby human girl cry because it doesn't want to be eaten, maybe…

I share this view but also add that I’d like to reduce the cruelty to the pig or any animal. We all die and are food for something eventually. But not everyone gets a good existence and I wish they did. If the pig gets to roll around in some nice mud and sunbath for a few years that will make me feel better. I don’t care if the pig wouldn’t do the same for me, but I wish it would.

We have a mini pig that lives with us. I think the parent's comment is vastly underestimating pigs. They're very sweet, empathetic animals.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#434

Post by mike_d » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:13 PM UTC

drewg123 wrote: post #64

ngngngng wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Raising cattle can easily become a net negative to carbon emissions if cows are given slightly more space to graze and moved around more often. If all cattle were raised in this way there would be slightly less cattle production but a far more positive environmental impact than if we all switched to vegan "meat". https://blog.whiteoakpastures.com/blog/carbon-negative-grass...

That study seems to be comparing cropland to pasture. The problem is that the tradeoff is not between cropland and pasture, but pasture and forest. Eg: https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2019/jul/02/revealed... Due to increasing demand for meat, we have people burning the forest and releasing all the carbon sequestered in the trees, and reducing the efficiency of the land as a carbon sink going forward.

The majority of the worlds meat is raised in areas where forests do not naturally develop.

If all natural meat consumption stopped tomorrow, Brazilians would cut down forests to grow whatever is needed for fake meat. The problem is land is one of the few economically exploitable natural resources the country has to sustain itself.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#435

Post by dopidop » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:13 PM UTC

core-questions wrote: post #395

gonehome wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "On a side note: I'm not vegetarian. I simply agree with those who are." This was my position for a long time until finally making the jump at the beginning of the pandemic (vegetarian, will rarely eat fish sometimes). For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the envi…

> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the environmental or nutritional arguments feel like side issues to avoid just tackling this issue directly. For me, this is the weakest argument. Animals are not people, and agriculturally farmed animals only exist because of…

> as someone who doesn't anthropomorphize them it's easy to simply not care whatsoever about their emotional state. It doesn't noticeably impact the quality of the meat

You haven’t kill much, didn’t you? Otherwise you will know that stress and the way you kill the creature change it’s taste. Depending on what you are killing, it can be a dramatic change.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#436

Post by com2kid » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:14 PM UTC

dheera wrote: post #170

com2kid wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is important, and less meat consumption is good, but I am kind of upset that the entire American culinary experience is being reduced to "burgers, pizza, and fried chicken." I say that because most of the articles on meat alternatives are written from the perspective of "if only Americans can stop eating hamburgers!" First off, in terms of global solutions, that isn't going to fly. Try going to Ital…

> Second off, I, an American, don't even eat hamburgers[1] more than once or twice a year. And I'm not going to switch all my meat eating over to meat alternative hamburgers. You're also likely in a privileged class of Americans. Unfortunately the US government indirectly subsidizes meat. Hamburgers and fried meat of sorts are staples of the low-income class. The meat consumption in that class is off the charts, and…

Various cuts of pork, tougher cuts of beef, and until recently, chicken thighs (which can still occasionally be fund on sale for under $2 a pound), are dirt cheap. In college bone in skin on chicken thighs were more my go to than pre-made ground beef.

> Ideally, the government should be subsidizing a variety of healthy vegetables for human consumption

I agree with you in general, but for pure sake of "being alive" the government is going to subsidize something that has calories. Kale may be good for people in the general sense, but even at 25 cents a bunch, it isn't going to fill any bellies.

Starches or protein, one or the other. Getting people to eat vegetables is largely cultural, though $ is certainly part of it, and a part that needs to be addressed.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#437

Post by YeGoblynQueenne » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:15 PM UTC

gonehome wrote: post #415

YeGoblynQueenne wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. The way I think of it, pigs are very intelligent, more intelligent than dogs. However, humans are more intelligent. If pigs were more intelligent, pigs would eat humans. And that's not a figure of speech. Pig would eat us if they could. They wouldn't stop and think, gee, does this little baby human girl cry because it doesn't want to be eaten, maybe…

> "So why should I not eat them? What kind of superior morality am I supposed to claim for myself to think I'm morally better than a pig? None. A pig would eat me, so I eat a pig." This just isn't very strong reasoning to me. Pigs and other animals do lots of things you would presumably not do. A pig would also not keep you in a farm to eat later (among many other industrialized things we do to livestock). Just becau…

>> Pigs and other animals do lots of things you would presumably not do.

Yes, but they also do this thing that I would do. This is why this debate exists in the first place, yes? Because some animals eat other animals and we're that kind of animal. It doesn't matter if some aninmals would, e.g., eat their own excreta, because that is not something that humans do anyway and so there is no reason to discuss whether we should do it too or not.

>> A pig would also not keep you in a farm to eat later (among many other industrialized things we do to livestock).

I am arguing that if pigs were more intelligent than we are they would do to us exactly what we do to them, including keeping us in farms to eat later etc.

>> We have the capacity to choose not to eat them and to reduce suffering as a result.

Most animals, particularly pigs, would get eaten by something anyway. By not eating them we are not reducing suffering, we are simply shifting the blame.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#438

Post by theNJR » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

at_ wrote: post #51

Their stuff is good. Here in the UK every supermarket chain now has their own vegan ranges putting out stuff almost (admittedly not quite) as good, priced very competitively. Even a couple of years ago that simply wasn't case. Random stray thought I had earlier is how interesting things are going to be when we move further away from emulating existing meat products, and become more comfortable eating plant-based stuf…

The analogy of less water and more Pepsi is terrifying and potentially accurate.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#439

Post by Falling3 » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:16 PM UTC

core-questions wrote: post #395

gonehome wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "On a side note: I'm not vegetarian. I simply agree with those who are." This was my position for a long time until finally making the jump at the beginning of the pandemic (vegetarian, will rarely eat fish sometimes). For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the envi…

> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the environmental or nutritional arguments feel like side issues to avoid just tackling this issue directly. For me, this is the weakest argument. Animals are not people, and agriculturally farmed animals only exist because of…

This is an extremely uncharitable reply. Where did anyone try and equate the suffering of animals and humans? Accusing your opponents of anthropomorphizing because of concern about non-human suffering is a ridiculous response. The fact that farm animals would not exist without our intervention has no bearing on what we owe them morally. Finally, one can work to alleviate the suffering of both humans and non-humans. Not only does one not preclude the other, but I find more often than not those working towards ending one are working towards ending the other.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#440

Post by megablast » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 11:17 PM UTC

DamnYuppie wrote: post #139

jdavis703 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not just cow farts. Raising and killing a whole cow is an inefficient way to extract calories from plants. Even chicken would be more efficient.

My understanding is that cooked meat has much higher caloric value than vegetables. To be honest if it wasn't so good for us we wouldn't have evolved to consume it!

Are you finding it hard to consume enough calories??