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Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

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Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#421

Beyond nutritional or environmental reasons to reduce meat consumption, there are ethical considerations about the consciousness of the animals we slaughter. It doesn’t matter how we get people to be less reliant on factory farms, so long as we do. We must examine every avenue that allows us to reduce the suffering of animals.

Preface: I'm a hypocritical omnivore who likes animals. If meat alternatives and lab grown meat become cheap and indistinguishable from real sources, I predict that within the span of two generations our descendants are going to look back on us as immoral savages. I use cognitive dissonance and distance from how my food is made to get over how horrible industrial farming is and how brutal life can be for livestock. T…

I imagine this sentiment is often from seeing documentaries about the worst conditions in farming, and the general cosseting away from life and death that most of us have enjoyed.

But the farms and ranches I grew up around, and that I buy most of my meat from, never seem that brutal when I’ve visited them, and the animals seem well cared for and mostly doing their own thing on the pasture most of the time.

I wanted to take more responsibility for my consumption, so I’ve been increasingly substituting in meat that I hunt for that which I buy from farmers. The North American model of wildlife management maintains an abundance of wildlife compared to other continents, and the hunting community pours billions of dollars into land conservation and re-establishing extirpated species into their natural ranges. There’s a paradox in hunting—killing an individual animal but pouring resources and votes into maintaining populations, and the existence of that species in the face of industrial exploitation of the land. The system is set up so that the populations don’t decline year over year, the number of animals harvested by hunters is often simply subtracted from the total number of animals that would have died from starvation over winter.

The damage done to the natural environment by the sort of soy and legume monoculture that makes industrial meat substitutes profitable has its own issues, and anyone who’s lived near a farm and seen the vultures and raptors circling a freshly combined field knows that the number of rodents killed to produce a cows worth of veggie burgers is significant. I’m not arguing that we should, or could, go one way or the other, but I hope that a hundred years from now the moral certitude that you’re describing has not been adopted. We’ve been eating other animals for as long as we’ve been a species, and hunting just as long, and farming for 12,000 years. Long term, the species and environment would probable be best served by some diversity in approaches.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#423
post #176

Rather than trying to encourage people to substitute the ingredients in their meals, I wish we'd encourage more healthy habits and work life balance. So many people are either pressed for time or incapable of preparing a decent meal. If they aren't ordering takeout, they're falling back on boxed or prepared options. Simply substituting fake meat for real meat isn't improving anyone's lives.

Can't we do both?

Probably not. Big business is interested in extracting the maximum amount of profit. They have no interest in doing anything that might jeopardize profits. Reducing production of subsidized crops, focusing on nutritional density and sustainable farming, and other goals only cut into profits.

We're seeing rising prices for food but the quality is in decline. Even if nutritious food was available to everyone, people are over worked, and have to little time or energy to prepare nutritious meals. They're opting for the fast/easy option every time.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "On a side note: I'm not vegetarian. I simply agree with those who are." This was my position for a long time until finally making the jump at the beginning of the pandemic (vegetarian, will rarely eat fish sometimes). For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the envi…

> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the environmental or nutritional arguments feel like side issues to avoid just tackling this issue directly. For me, this is the weakest argument. Animals are not people, and agriculturally farmed animals only exist because of…

“Why help people in other countries when we have homeless?

Why help homeless when we don’t help our veterans?

Why help our veterans...”

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#426
post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beyond Meat is not like tofu or so, it is designed to be unrecognizable from meat by tasting it - so you won't have to give on our beloved meat. I also don't want to go with a vegan diet just because "environment", but having a reasonably priced substituent which does not contain tortured animals and has lower env. impact - then just why not.

I've consumed a lot of Beyond and Impossible, and it's good! But still a far way from unrecognizable. In fact, one thing they have made me appreciate is how good some of the "traditional" meat substitutes are. I actually quite like Boca and Garden Burgers et al! Still, the once or twice a year I go to a steakhouse and get a nice medium rare steak - we're a long, long way off from that.

I know it's slightly different, but the goal is to be the same.

And actually, if I were to decide whether the meat in Mc Donald's burgers or nuggets is real, I'd just say no - it is much further from a "real" burger / nugget than I'd say about beyond.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#427
post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that this is important, and less meat consumption is good, but I am kind of upset that the entire American culinary experience is being reduced to "burgers, pizza, and fried chicken." I say that because most of the articles on meat alternatives are written from the perspective of "if only Americans can stop eating hamburgers!" First off, in terms of global solutions, that isn't going to fly. Try going to Ital…

> "we've replaced all your meat, with a ground beef alternative!" I'm sorry but who ever says anything about replacing all meat? It's more about having a readily available alternative and starting to think of meat as a luxury instead of it being a part of every meal.

> starting to think of meat as a luxury

I remember growing up drinking soda with every meal because the common perception was that you ordered water at a restaurant only if that was all you could afford. Trying to make meat a luxury is the best way to ensure long term increasing demand.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "On a side note: I'm not vegetarian. I simply agree with those who are." This was my position for a long time until finally making the jump at the beginning of the pandemic (vegetarian, will rarely eat fish sometimes). For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the envi…

> For me, it was mostly about reducing suffering of other animals. I thought this way before but it's hard to change behavior and I liked hamburgers. I think this is the strongest argument and the environmental or nutritional arguments feel like side issues to avoid just tackling this issue directly. For me, this is the weakest argument. Animals are not people, and agriculturally farmed animals only exist because of…

Just because something is evolved behavior doesn't make it moral: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/QsMJQSFj7WfoTMNgW/the-traged...

Natural selection doesn't have morality as a goal, only passing on genetic material.

> "The suffering of an animal is not the suffering of a human; and if suffering is our primary concern, there's plenty of human suffering that still needs dealt with before we worry about animals."

I think it's possible to care about both and not eating meat is a relatively easy way to reduce one.

> "They're simply _not human_ and so as someone who doesn't anthropomorphize them it's easy to simply not care whatsoever about their emotional state."

This just puts humans in a special reference class by themselves. It makes it easy then, but I just don't find this that compelling.

> "I think there are a lot of oversocialized people who watched too many anthropomorphic movies and cartoons as kids."

If you have spent any time with animals you learn more about them, fear, suffering, varied emotional states are not uniquely human.

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#429
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> large mammal farts going on now is probably not that much higher than it always has been I believe a big part of it has to do with the feedlot diet— when they're eating a high-calorie diet of mostly corn/grain instead of their natural diet of grass, it puts their digestive system into overdrive. EDIT: I looked into it a bit more after posting this, and it looks like it's not clear-cut— for example, it takes a cow a…

It's the opposite. The reason cows produce more methane is precisely because they eat grass.

When grass naturally, does it produce methane?

EDIT: it must be part of cow digestion. I just remember that cow burbs are bigger methane problems, but cow farts are fine. Still not sure about methane from grass dying normally, and maybe there’s lots extra grass being grown for cows that wouldn’t grow normally?

Re: Beyond Meat signs global supply deals with McDonald’s, KFC and Pizza Hut

#430
post #2

This is the best news I've heard all week. The more widely vegan "meat" is available, the more likely it is to be adopted by average people and not just dedicated vegans. Reducing the demand for real beef is probably one of the best things we can do in the short term for the environment, due to the amount of land required for cattle farming, and due to the surprising amount of methane emitted by cattle. (see the docu…

I truly don't understand the methane issue. Historically worldwide the # of ungulates is probably well below historical averages. It looks like today we have around 98 million head of cattle in the US. Historically we had bison in excess of conservatively 60 million. This doesn't even begin to count all the animals in Africa. Overall wide life is declining. https://www.statista.com/statistics/194297/total-number-of-c…

You have a very good point!

I has also been shown that under the right conditions grazing lands can actually sequester carbon [1].

So there is no a priori argument against meat from the point of view of climate effects, though there are obviously better and worse practices.

[1] http://www.fao.org/3/i1880e/i1880e00.htm

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