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Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#551

Post by dragonwriter »

jtbayly wrote: post #547
bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

A professor at a Christian college claimed to be in religious solidarity with Muslims. That’s pretty much like saying that you’re attempting to further Facebook’s goals as a Google employee. Of course you get fired.

> A professor at a Christian college claimed to be in religious solidarity with Muslims.

I'm not sure if the greater theological offense was the solidarity with Muslims or quoting the Pope in support of it (Wheaton had only a few years before fired a professor for converting to Catholicism; “Christian” isn't a label of a monolithic group in practice.)

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#552

Post by jtbayly »

nine_k wrote: post #546
rayiner wrote: post #453

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If what you’re saying is that the New York Times is now the progressive version of Liberty University then I accept that concession. Regarding your edit: > Edit: Forgot to mention this extreme example of cancel culture: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/professor-who-wore-hijab- ... The professor was fired from a Christian school for making an assertion (that Muslims and Christians “worship the same god”) that, acco…

The problem is that Christians are varied. For Catholics, for instance, God of Muslims and Christians is the same, and the Pope has explicitly stated so. Some Evangelical Christians, being Protestants, have a ton of disagreement with Catholics, and disagree at this point, too. Muslims universally agree, AFAICT, because Muhammad himself stated this explicitly (and Christ figures prominently as a prophet in Quran). See…

The Christian faith is based on the fundamental fact that Jesus is God in human flesh. I worship Jesus. Muslims do not. No Muslim will claim to worship the same God as I do.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#553

Post by rayiner »

jtbayly wrote: post #547
bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

A professor at a Christian college claimed to be in religious solidarity with Muslims. That’s pretty much like saying that you’re attempting to further Facebook’s goals as a Google employee. Of course you get fired.

She was fired for saying that Muslims and Christians worship the same god, which is literally heresy according to many Christians: https://www.npr.org/2015/12/20/460480698/do-christians-and-m.... Jews and Muslims reject the trinity, which is an essential part of the confession of faith in most branches of Christianity. So it’s quite loaded to say that the Jewish and Muslim god is “the same” as the Christian god.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#554

Post by nine_k »

Solvitieg wrote: post #435
bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

I think what's interesting is the moral policing is no longer coming from the religious right. I recommend "The Realignment" podcast which often discusses why this shift has occurred: https://the-realignment.simplecast.com/

Well, yes, some Left are no less religious, even if their religion is not the old Christianity usually confessed by the traditional Right.

If you look at the history of 20th century, you may find a number of instances when e.g. Communism was professed (and enforced) with a truly religious fervor and lack of doubt. Ironically, the same thing happens time and again to Atheism.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#555

Post by leereeves »

taurath wrote: post #542
stjohnswarts wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to cancel my NYT (after 15 years) because it has gone from center left to far left cancel culture bastion. They follow the guilty until proven innocent mindset of the current generation of "twitterati" and sucumb to their whims.

Do you have examples of the NYT cancelling someone for nonbigoted views?

As it happens, there's an example being discussed here on HN right now: the NYT pushed out Donald McNeil Jr. for saying "You should never call someone a [N-word]".

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26306020

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#556

Post by cozuya »

jimbokun wrote: post #478
cozuya wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are some examples of people being cancelled by a small amount of anonymous people? I can't think of any. Lets looks at Gina Carano for example. She was "cancelled" (fired from her job) as the direct result of her social media posting things a large number of people found offensive and inappropriate, not a small amount. 10 anonymous people didn't cause it, hundreds of thousands of people thought it was wrong.

Where did you get hundreds of thousands? Even if that’s accurate, doesn’t necessarily reflect the opinion of the broader public.

So no examples then?

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#557

Post by bosswipe »

jtbayly wrote: post #552
nine_k wrote: post #546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that Christians are varied. For Catholics, for instance, God of Muslims and Christians is the same, and the Pope has explicitly stated so. Some Evangelical Christians, being Protestants, have a ton of disagreement with Catholics, and disagree at this point, too. Muslims universally agree, AFAICT, because Muhammad himself stated this explicitly (and Christ figures prominently as a prophet in Quran). See…

The Christian faith is based on the fundamental fact that Jesus is God in human flesh. I worship Jesus. Muslims do not. No Muslim will claim to worship the same God as I do.

Jesus is "the son" and Muhammad is "the prophet" of the same God.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#558

Post by rayiner »

taurath wrote: post #542
stjohnswarts wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had to cancel my NYT (after 15 years) because it has gone from center left to far left cancel culture bastion. They follow the guilty until proven innocent mindset of the current generation of "twitterati" and sucumb to their whims.

Do you have examples of the NYT cancelling someone for nonbigoted views?

Who did the NYT cancel who had anything other than mainstream center-left views? (Serious question. Maybe they did and I just wasn’t aware of it.)

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#559

Post by rayiner »

stjohnswarts wrote: post #529
Solvitieg wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what's interesting is the moral policing is no longer coming from the religious right. I recommend "The Realignment" podcast which often discusses why this shift has occurred: https://the-realignment.simplecast.com/

It's coming from both sides you can't deny that. Look at the dangerous appointments made to the judicial branch. While the far left dominate twitter and social media and try to cancel everyone the evangelicals are doing pretty well at cancelling liberal voting rights and women's rights if you aren't paying attention. It's as if people things others don't have a right to think in any way other than the way they think…

ACB is so “dangerous” she might vote to overturn Roe and thereby make abortion a legislative rather than constitutional issue, as in almost every developed country such as France. https://repository.law.uic.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2.... Far-right wing ACB might possibly vote the same way as the ... European Court of Human Rights: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A,_B_and_C_v_Ireland

> A, B and C v Ireland is a landmark 2010 case of the European Court of Human Rights on the right to privacy under Article 8. The court rejected the argument that article 8 conferred a right to abortion

Or maybe the Overton window has just shifted very left in the US about what social issues are human rights and what can properly be decided by legislative majorities?

And if far-right ACB were successful in making the right to privacy in the US similar to the one under the European Convention on Human Rights, the US states would be free to draw the line for on-demand abortions without any medical emergencies at 12-13 weeks, like nearly all European countries do and 70% of Americans support, instead of at 22-26 weeks, as is required by Roe. https://www.france24.com/en/20180525-abortion-laws-vary-eu-i.... https://news.gallup.com/poll/235469/trimesters-key-abortion-...

Of course, overturning Roe isn’t really in the cards. There are just 3 votes for it. In June Medical just two Justices, (not including ACB, who was not yet on the Court) signaled a willingness to overturn Roe. Unlike deciding a case in the first instance, overruling an existing precedent is an act of discretion. A Justice who disagrees with the merits can (and likely will) still support to uphold the precedent.

Much more likely than ACB overturning Ginsberg’s legacy with respect to abortion is ACB upholding Ginsberg’s legacy with respect to the Equal Protection Clause. At the ACLU, Ginsberg built that legacy on a textualist interpretation of the Equal Protection Clause, challenging laws that discriminated against men supposedly to benefit women as violations of equal protection. Under the current progressive worldview, that literal interpretation of “equal” treatment under the law will prove an impediment to importing critical theory into the law. That area, where the precedent isn’t as clear cut, is much more likely to be an area where ACB has an impact.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#560

Post by trhway »

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #411
whywhywhywhy wrote: post #83

Not sure a 66 year old can truly understand what consequences young people can face. You can be completely blacklisted not only from your works being stocked, but even all means of promoting yourself too and in the most extreme cases get blacklisted from payment processors which I'm sure will trickle down and become more common over the next few years. End of the day you have to pay the bills and if you want them pai…

I wonder what "PC" terminology we use today will be a fireable offense if uttered in the future.

>if uttered in the future

how about if what uttered today gets inspected in the future? Given the trajectory of the things, i already self-censor all my posts today - even anonymous as there is no true anonymity really, and the Political Correctness Officers of the future will have access to all the information they'd want. I've already seen ideological intolerance back in the USSR (and US had it during the times of McCarthy), and the future looks more and more like such an intolerance amplified by the technology, "cyber-neo-McCarthyism".

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