Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear' • Hacker News Board

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Post by jokethrowaway » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:02 AM UTC

hannasanarion wrote: post #397

throwaway894345 wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you fundamentally misunderstand free speech and the "marketplace of ideas" metaphor. It's precisely because of free speech that we can collectively condemn geocentrism, racism, holocaust-denial, authoritarianism, etc. Indeed, authoritarianism in general and Nazism, Stalinism, Maoism, etc in particular always starts with speech restrictions. The idea that free speech and authoritarianism are bed fellows doesn'…

> Indeed, authoritarianism in general and Nazism, Stalinism, Maoism, etc in particular always starts with speech restrictions. The idea that free speech and authoritarianism are bed fellows doesn't make sense; these are mutually exclusive. This is a myth perpetuated by selective cultural memory. The Nazis were all about "free speech" before they were in power. They frequently complained about "Free speech" when paper…

(not parent throwaway) Just because nazis used their free speech right to do their propaganda, that doesn't mean free speech caused nazism. In order to do any propaganda (whether that's for a morally good or bad cause), you need to be able to talk to people.

The first thing nazis did was to revoke free speech rights. That's an example of authoritarianism and free speech being opposites.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Post by stjohnswarts » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:04 AM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #453

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

If what you’re saying is that the New York Times is now the progressive version of Liberty University then I accept that concession. Regarding your edit: > Edit: Forgot to mention this extreme example of cancel culture: https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/professor-who-wore-hijab- ... The professor was fired from a Christian school for making an assertion (that Muslims and Christians “worship the same god”) that, acco…

I had to cancel my NYT (after 15 years) because it has gone from center left to far left cancel culture bastion. They follow the guilty until proven innocent mindset of the current generation of "twitterati" and sucumb to their whims.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Post by heterodoxxed » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:05 AM UTC

jimbokun wrote: post #400

heterodoxxed wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

| that's an insane dynamic to create in What do you think Twitter would have looked like in 1956 when James Baldwin published Giovanni's Room ? Is the problem "cancel culture" (a nebulous term which means little) or simply the result of giving everyone on earth a place to complain?

Cancel culture is a direct result of giving everyone on earth a place to complain.

That seems to be an entirely different issue than how the term "cancel culture" is used politically.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Post by prawn » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:05 AM UTC

commandlinefan wrote: post #248

BitwiseFool wrote: post #14

I genuinely wonder what cancel culture is going to look like in the next 5-10 years and beyond. Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. But as much as I loathe cancel culture and it's chilling effects on the free exchange…

The only way we'll ever be able to combat cancel culture is through online anonymity. I fear that we're drifting in the other direction, though - specifically to make cancellation easier.

Problem with that is that anonymous content is generally text and that's the easiest to have bots spurt out with little effort. Sometimes reading a basic forum, I wonder whether the future forums will be some percentage bot-generated. Much of it is hardly high-level discourse.

Meanwhile, more engaging content is personal - faces, travel, personal action, being physically in a place. That's harder to do anonymously.

Obviously there are exceptions in both cases.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Post by heterodoxxed » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:06 AM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #309

heterodoxxed wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't you think that's just a little bit hysterical, comparing a minority of people complaining on twitter to a government show trial?

If they can get you ostracized socially (fired from a job, blacklisted in an industry), that is not a small punishment. Plus, what interests me is the underlying mentality. It seems to be similar. It only does not have enough power right now, fortunately. But the idea of destroying the heretic in maximal possible extent seems to be a fairly consistent common denominator. It is actually useful to know that it is still…

| It seems to be similar.

It has much more in common with the Amish than it does with Soviet style authoritarianism.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Post by stjohnswarts » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

undefined1 wrote: post #471

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

many of us were against it when the puritanical right was censoring people/art/media, and we're still against it now that it's a puritanical left censoring people/art/media. why is that so hard to understand and to be consistent about this? people need to stop getting distracted by naked partisanship and focus on the issue. a principled stance is key! now we're seeing big tech getting roped in and the tools of censor…

Exactly some of my younger friends don't understand that voices from the right have a place too. Cancelling everything that you don't like or that makes you feel uncomfortable is a dangerous echo chamber philsophy that leads to dictators in waiting (see Trump) . I am a progressive who highly values the Bill of Rights as critical to keeping us free from despotism but I know that a huge portion of the country isn't progressive and to turn them into villains and "evil" people that are easy to hate is very dangerous.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Post by taurath » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:08 AM UTC

mxcrossb wrote: post #469

Solvitieg wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what's interesting is the moral policing is no longer coming from the religious right. I recommend "The Realignment" podcast which often discusses why this shift has occurred: https://the-realignment.simplecast.com/

I also find this topic far more interesting than the fairly cliche discussion over “cancel culture”. It seems like conservatives have caught up to post modernism, whereas liberals are now passionate about objective truth and morality being black and white. I really wonder how tenable these positions are going forward.

I’d rather have them vigorously defending for their right to be a bigot than be a bigot actually with cultural power, having grown up during the latter.

Free expression of contrary views is also important (though not ALL contrary views). What I think will happen is further Balkanization of the internet. We can’t all play in the exact same sandbox. Echo chambers are not new - people lived within distinct communities before the internet. I lived in a 50/50 liberal conservative town growing up and I interacted with only other kids of conservatives outside of school.

Now if we could have platforms that didn’t reward shallow engagements maybe we could get somewhere.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Post by Clewza313 » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:09 AM UTC

DenisM wrote: post #491

dahfizz wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just about everyone I speak to about the subject agrees that cancel culture is bad but very few people seem willing to confront it. I sense that people hope the rest of society will come to its senses and we all stop being so judgemental. I found this[1] article very interesting. Basically, only 2% of American adults generate over 80% of all tweets. "Cancel Culture" really is run by a few extremists who have a loud…

The French revolution was effected by a relatively small mob of Parisians, not at all representative of the rural France that was the majority. Still, minority or not, the heads rolled.

To be a bit more precise, that small mob invented head rolling, since the French Revolution and subsequent Reign of Terror is when the guillotine first became widely adopted.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

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Post by stjohnswarts » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:10 AM UTC

Solvitieg wrote: post #435

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

I think what's interesting is the moral policing is no longer coming from the religious right. I recommend "The Realignment" podcast which often discusses why this shift has occurred: https://the-realignment.simplecast.com/

It's coming from both sides you can't deny that. Look at the dangerous appointments made to the judicial branch. While the far left dominate twitter and social media and try to cancel everyone the evangelicals are doing pretty well at cancelling liberal voting rights and women's rights if you aren't paying attention. It's as if people things others don't have a right to think in any way other than the way they think and live.

Re: Sir Kazuo Ishiguro warns of young authors self-censoring out of 'fear'

#530

Post by civilized » Tue, Mar 02, 2021, 1:11 AM UTC

bachmeier wrote: post #117

Surprising how much press "cancel culture" gets these days as if it's a new thing or as if it's a new thing being pushed on society by the left . We've always had cancel culture. Some might remember the Dixie Chicks. How about the Rachael Ray ad that Dunkin Donuts pulled merely because it looked like an Arab scarf? Jerry Falwell came to prominence entirely based on his pushing of cancel culture. When I lived in North…

I'm very puzzled by the assertion that disproportionate punishment for violating some tribal taboo is old news and uninteresting, while hypocrisy is the real big story. I mean, hypocrisy has been around as long as tribal taboos, so, if anything, you should be just as uninterested in the hypocrisy... and thus uninterested in the whole topic, so why bother making a comment?