On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't • Hacker News Board

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#431

Post by sct202 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #307

skohan wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder if that event horizon is encroaching higher and higher up the economic ladder over time. Most of the people in my personal cohort - with university degrees and good careers - have no problem living a good life in the US. But with the rapid inflation of the cost of healthcare, higher education and housing, I wonder how that lifestyle can possibly become accessible to people who weren't essentially b…

This is very much the trend I saw over the 2000s-2010s. Most of the people in my personal cohort - with university degrees and good careers - have no problem living a good life in the US. But with the rapid inflation of the cost of healthcare, higher education and housing, I wonder how that lifestyle can possibly become accessible to people who weren't essentially born into it. I know many people who were born into a…

In my peer group people are focusing on the monthly payments, rather than the loan amount. And mortgage rates are like half what they were in the last housing bubble https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MORTGAGE30US

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#432

Post by andromeduck » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

vorpalhex wrote: post #227

syops wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much enjoyed reading your post. You made a statement that, taken literally, I disagree with and wonder if you care to elaborate more on it. I made it and you can too. It seems to me that luck plays a huge role in each success story like yours. My wife had a similar trajectory and makes quite a bit of money. However, along the way, there were hundreds of decisions made that could have gone the wrong way. She's…

I didn't have it as hard as the parent, but I remember choosing between bus fare and meals quite a few times. My first paycheck was spent on white bread and a tube of sausage, and now I live a pretty comfortable life. Most everyone in my orbit has improved their situation too. Sometimes that was with help from a family member, but generally things have gotten better for friends who were in the same circumstances I wa…

This is my experience too - almost everyone who hung out with me in the library, computer lab or metal shop seemed to do fairly well for themselves - not like 200k tech job well but like 80k blue collar or white collar when most of us grew up with less than 40k combined household income. Half of us first or second generation immigrants and refugees, lots of broken families, lots of substance abuse, lots from Romania, Serbia, Irab, Iraq, China.

IMO it was passion for reading and building things with our hands that that seperated our cohort from the rest - that and the bond between those of us who knew we hadn't much of a safety net to rely on.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#433

Post by u678u » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:38 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #216

throwaway-0987 wrote: post #174

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

Fellow former-poor here. It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life. And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Most of the people I work with graduated from school as guaranteed millionaires. I hear things get said by people that are so far from the orbit of my reality and I cringe. Reading the article was really eye opening for me because I hadn't thought of all of the life s…

> It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life.

Shadow really though? I'm super glad everything came through my own work, I'd hate if my parents gave me anything. I hate spending any money, to me that is just sensible though not a problem.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#434

Post by sixstringtheory » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:39 PM UTC

busterarm wrote: post #216

throwaway-0987 wrote: post #174

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

Fellow former-poor here. It's the kind of thing that casts a shadow over your whole life. And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Most of the people I work with graduated from school as guaranteed millionaires. I hear things get said by people that are so far from the orbit of my reality and I cringe. Reading the article was really eye opening for me because I hadn't thought of all of the life s…

> I spend an enormous amount of money on tools and equipment. I'm the one helping all of my friends build, move or fix things.

I grew up lower middle class but my dad grew up poor. I think a lot of his practices still rubbed off onto me, sounds a lot like what you describe.

We have a friend who grew up comfortably and have noticed how that influenced their more laissez-faire approach to life. E.g. when we help them move, we do most of the work. There’s a sort of “everything will work out” mentality on their part, whereas I’m constantly worrying about how it’s all going to fall apart.

It’s not really good or bad, though. I almost envy the carefree attitude. Childhood trauma tends to make people try to control things more as adults, and I wish I didn’t stress things so much. My wife also grew up more “securely” and we talk a lot about how it informs our worldview differently. Thankfully it doesn’t cause problems though, it’s just interesting. I think we’re just different enough to make a great team.

And as others mentioned, I value the life skills I gained by my upbringing and early start on working for myself. I can build and fix things, and cook really well. Gonna be just fine, I think.

Happy building, busterarm!

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#435

Post by craftinator » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #347

kungito wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this issue is very important and when I think about it I cannot help but think the answer lies all the way down in the question whether we have free will. Some people say "you have to be perseverant like me and you will make it and often time we think about people who have simply cannot be perseverant enough but they are good people. Can they be better "if they wanted it more" or "if someone helped them" and…

> Are they to blame I think we’ve become so afraid of giving the impression of victim-blaming people who are down on their luck that we’re afraid to acknowledge that people can and do work their way into better life circumstances. Even if we think of luck as the central determinant of a person’s success in life, then we still have to acknowledge that the person’s own choices and actions will pivot their destiny aroun…

> if someone decides not to put in the effort required to succeed at the job

I read this rhetoric constantly, then I look at a bunch of hard working people that I know, who are poor.

Luck is the opportunity to succeed, hard work is the way to capitalize on that opportunity. One without the other means no success. And on that same note, you can make "good decision" that cause you to miss out on amazing opportunities, and "bad decisions" that end you up in with great opportunities.

I've made plenty of decisions that I thought at the time were kinda dumb, but put me in serendipitous situations which ended up landing me great jobs. So really, the luckier you are, the more chances you'll have to escape poverty; if you're willing to work hard at those critical times, you'll actually succeed.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#436

Post by Phillips126 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:41 PM UTC

issamehh wrote: post #73

EliRivers wrote: post #69

The car. As he says, the car. The goddamned car. Every time you get into it, hoping that it will start. And not just when it's been sat outside your house for a while. When you stop for petrol (gas), or in the car park after buying food, sitting behind the wheel and hoping it starts again. The restrictions that get placed on you when you just can't rely on the car always starting. For your life, a mostly-starts car i…

This has been my problem for years now. I'm in the middle of nowhere and I can't count on the thing. I don't know how many times I've been stuck and also almost towed because I couldn't move it. I've luckily managed to avoid it so far but I'd not be able to do much about it if it happened.

I once was interviewing at a company for a graphic designer position. My previous job was paying me just below $30,000 and I desperately needed to increase my income to keep up with my bills (college loans, rent, food, electric, etc.). My vehicle (1987 Chevy Blazer) was not very reliable (in ~2010) and wouldn't you know it - I broke down immediately after parking in a lot directly in front of a sign that said "2 Hour Parking, Vehicle Will Be Towed At Owners Expense".

I'll never forget the embarrassment I felt after a pretty underwhelming interview explaining that my car was broken down outside in their lot and asked they notify their security so that I was not hit with more expensive fees. I've had some pretty significant financial hardships - some much worse than this, but this moment in particular really had a lasting effect on me.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#437

Post by kungito » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #347

kungito wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this issue is very important and when I think about it I cannot help but think the answer lies all the way down in the question whether we have free will. Some people say "you have to be perseverant like me and you will make it and often time we think about people who have simply cannot be perseverant enough but they are good people. Can they be better "if they wanted it more" or "if someone helped them" and…

> Are they to blame I think we’ve become so afraid of giving the impression of victim-blaming people who are down on their luck that we’re afraid to acknowledge that people can and do work their way into better life circumstances. Even if we think of luck as the central determinant of a person’s success in life, then we still have to acknowledge that the person’s own choices and actions will pivot their destiny aroun…

Maybe where you are from but here in eastern Europe you can get a cushy job and work at 20% of effort and live an upper middle class life just from 1 good connection. Then you can work you ass off in college but in the wrong industry where there are no "well paid jobs for hard working people" around where you are and live a barely middle class life. The sad part is people do succeed from here by working hard but byoving away to where the job is, often half a world away, leaving behind everything, friends, family. Did they work hard and "succeed"? Yes, but at what cost. Meanwhile lucky people were born at the right time in the right family. We should both equalize the starting positions and especially make sure your lowest low still gives you medical insourance, a place to stay and food to eat. At least it's laughable how many people in USA don't have proper health care

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#438

Post by nitrogen » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:42 PM UTC

ausbah wrote: post #79

austincheney wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you will know their nature. You don’t need to be homeless to discover that some people lack sympathy. I lack sympathy. It doesn’t mean I’m an asshole. Sympathy isn’t empathy (huge distinction). Some people can’t tell the difference and everyone is just bad (cue the big tears). This is especially true if you’re a freeloa…

you know "free loaders" aren't why most people are homeless right?

It's nowhere near the majority case, but I have definitely met freeloader panhandlers when they were off duty. One was an older couple who made their grandkids put on ratty clothes and hold signs in the city, so they could continue living on the road in their very nice RV. I met them at a campground when I was a kid, and the grandkids accidentally let slip that "the bank" was code for panhandling.

The other was clearly a bit mentally unhinged. He pulled up in a very nice Mercedes with a bunch of weird slogans silkscreened on the back window that would put Qanon to shame, but this was in 2004. If I remember right he showed us his fine suits in the trunk of the car. Told us about his private compound where he lived. Then proceeded to dance and sing in the middle of the street in his bum clothes.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#439

Post by craftinator » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:43 PM UTC

beaner wrote: post #321

syops wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much enjoyed reading your post. You made a statement that, taken literally, I disagree with and wonder if you care to elaborate more on it. I made it and you can too. It seems to me that luck plays a huge role in each success story like yours. My wife had a similar trajectory and makes quite a bit of money. However, along the way, there were hundreds of decisions made that could have gone the wrong way. She's…

If it came down to hundreds of decisions along the way, not just one or two, that isn't luck. She's a good decision maker.

Bad decisions can have good outcomes. People are notoriously bad at predicting the future, so really it depends on how often you get lucky. I think charisma has the greatest effect on this.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#440

Post by u678u » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:44 PM UTC

> If you came from a family that did pretty well financially, went to college and then immediately started to do pretty well yourself, it’s hard to get any kind of context for what life is like at lower income levels.

America is hugely segregated by wealth and class. Where I come from you wouldn't need to read an article to describe what its like to be poor as there would be enough examples in your neighborhood, church or school. Americans live in these bubbles.

Its a problem where I would rather live in a working class neighborhood and send my kids to public schools when all my colleagues live in fancy towns with fancy schools. I like to keep my kids real but maybe I'm capping them.