On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't • Hacker News Board

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#411

Post by solidasparagus » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

sologoub wrote: post #344

syops wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I very much enjoyed reading your post. You made a statement that, taken literally, I disagree with and wonder if you care to elaborate more on it. I made it and you can too. It seems to me that luck plays a huge role in each success story like yours. My wife had a similar trajectory and makes quite a bit of money. However, along the way, there were hundreds of decisions made that could have gone the wrong way. She's…

As someone who has experienced pretty rough times (different from the OP), but doing just fine myself, of course luck has a lot to do with it, but why in the world so many people feel so compelled to belittle the accomplishment of OP climbing out and then encouraging others to at least hope for the same? I’m pretty sure things would be very different today if I didn’t have that hope. Don’t take the hope from people e…

If you read "you can do it" as encouragement to others in the same situation, it's a good thing. When you read it as a justification for why we shouldn't expand the social net, it's pretty terrible. No one is trying to belittle OP's accomplishments, but "I did it and you can too" sounds like a line from an anti-welfare politician so it shouldn't be surprising that many people take issue with it.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#412

Post by JKCalhoun » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:21 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #375

throwaway-0987 wrote: post #174

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

One of the things I know poverty did was make me hesitate to take on a mortgage. It was such a burden to think at any moment I might not have a job and then lose everything. I also remember being the kid who didn’t buy Nikes or the natural rubber soles to play sports on parquet, so had to do with other sports that didn’t have that requirement. I also remember the PE teacher telling me I could not just wear short pant…

Yes, I was afraid of a mortgage as well. But seeing the cost of homes rise to outpace my ability to save was what opened my eyes.

After buying (mortgaging) a home though, I was surprised that it was not the liability I expected it to be — even with the interest on the mortgage, it was my biggest asset and always has been.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#413

Post by bsanr2 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

throwaway-0987 wrote: post #174

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

You were lucky.

By that, I mean that a non-trivial percentage of the people in your circumstances at every step of the way (soup kitchen, GED attainment, degree attainment, buying your Corolla, buying your house, applying for your $200k/yr job) didn't make it.

I admire your accomplishments. I loathe and rebuke your, "And you can too!". The entire point of the essay you're replying to is to encourage sympathy and empathy for the people who cannot and will not, who will continue to exist in large numbers as long as our society remains as it is. You missed the point.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#414

Post by throwaway-0987 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:23 PM UTC

throwaway-0987 wrote: post #174

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

I can't edit the original post, but I wanted to clarify that the last paragraph was intended to give other poor people hope, not to make them feel inadequate. Sort of a cheer leader type thing. I probably should have left it out.

You are all right. I was lucky. We all are to some extent. I consider my aunt my only real family. I still drive to visit her grave each year.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#415

Post by sanderjd » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:24 PM UTC

sethammons wrote: post #129

> You are also more or less forced to learn to do mechanic work. You are forced to do all your own work, unless the landlord will help. I am no longer poor and broke, but I spent roughly my first three decades there. I recall a colleague saying they were redoing their walk way; it blew my mind they paid someone to do it — the concept of paying someone to do something for you is not something I experienced growing up.…

I think that interestingly, once you can afford to have someone do something for you, it is often (even usually) cheaper to do it that way than to do it yourself. If it is something you don't know how to do, then you are paying for the education in some way, either in your own time to learn how to do it, or in the lower quality that usually comes out of future value somehow (either resale value or it-needs-to-be-done-again cost). If it's something you already know how to do, then you're paying yourself for your own time rather than someone else paying you for that time. Of course there are lots of trade offs and balances to strike, but as a rule the bigger the project is the less I think I can save money by doing it myself.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#416

Post by bradleyjg » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

nerdponx wrote: post #307

skohan wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder if that event horizon is encroaching higher and higher up the economic ladder over time. Most of the people in my personal cohort - with university degrees and good careers - have no problem living a good life in the US. But with the rapid inflation of the cost of healthcare, higher education and housing, I wonder how that lifestyle can possibly become accessible to people who weren't essentially b…

This is very much the trend I saw over the 2000s-2010s. Most of the people in my personal cohort - with university degrees and good careers - have no problem living a good life in the US. But with the rapid inflation of the cost of healthcare, higher education and housing, I wonder how that lifestyle can possibly become accessible to people who weren't essentially born into it. I know many people who were born into a…

> Something fucky is going on, and I doubt it's all because of the "free" market.

At first the suburban house as bottomless bank account was a result of “natural” forces like the baby boom and white flight. But people came to assume it, and then demand it. Politicians have obliged since homeowners are an extremely large and powerful demographic. Prior to 2008 we at least pretended to have a private mortgage industry. Now we don’t even bother with a fig leaf.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#417

Post by busterarm » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:25 PM UTC

ryandrake wrote: post #402

ed25519FUUU wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And in this industry, nobody is comfortable talking about it. Most of the people I work with graduated from school as guaranteed millionaires. This is surprising to me. I’m also a former poor. A lot of people I work with in tech come from generally “normal” backgrounds. Middle to lower class (in excluding h1b and green card holders). It just turned out for them that their passion and hobby (computers) ended up bein…

> Good thing I got in while they were still taking nobodies. I feel the same way! I look around at my younger peers with such impressive pedigrees: Stanford, Ivy League, PhD’s, former founders, etc. and I think “wow, I’d never even get my foot in the door if I were entering today!

Oh I'm not much different than you and the parent either.

I got in before the door closed for sure. I just started late so the younger ones are my peers.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#418

Post by throwaway271818 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

Another throwaway because I don't want friends to know, but another thing about being poor that people who are not don't really understand is how much family can keep you down.

If you are the only person in your family to go to college/make lots of $$$, there's this overwhelming feeling to want to help your immediate or even extended family as much as you can. Sending them a large chunk of your salary eats into your ability to save and reinvest that money into more wealth.

It's kinda like having someone in the family who is a drug addict and is incapable of keeping a decent job and providing for themselves. Except instead of drugs they're just trying to survive, and instead of it being a single person you can easily dismiss for being an "addict", it's your whole family.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#419

Post by adkadskhj » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

JKCalhoun wrote: post #412

mc32 wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the things I know poverty did was make me hesitate to take on a mortgage. It was such a burden to think at any moment I might not have a job and then lose everything. I also remember being the kid who didn’t buy Nikes or the natural rubber soles to play sports on parquet, so had to do with other sports that didn’t have that requirement. I also remember the PE teacher telling me I could not just wear short pant…

Yes, I was afraid of a mortgage as well. But seeing the cost of homes rise to outpace my ability to save was what opened my eyes. After buying (mortgaging) a home though, I was surprised that it was not the liability I expected it to be — even with the interest on the mortgage, it was my biggest asset and always has been.

Yea, that's why i ended up with a house, too. Rent was so variable. It went up and up and up, and while i didn't have to deal with repair/etc, it felt like i had no control.

At least with a house i can budget to pay it off and budget to repair it. Both seem reasonably stable to plan for, assuming you make enough money.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#420

Post by tangjurine » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:27 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #288

tangjurine wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about a motorcycle? Cheaper and insurance not required.

>> ... insurance not required. Where exactly is insurance not required for a motorcycle? Or do you mean moped? And it was -12c with two inches of snow on my car this morning. Anything on two wheels would be lethal. Good luck even riding a bicycle with two inches of new snow over a season's worth of compact ice.

I thought for my state there was no need for insurance, but turns out in 2019 they started requiring it. Seattle rarely gets snow so I didn't think about weather conditions.

I think a motorcycle couldn't work for your case, but some sort of one or two person on road / off road vehicle would still be cheaper than buying a car.