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On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

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Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#311

Post by jancsika »

> The value of their work doesn’t factor in as much - An administrative assistant might touch every department in the company every day and facilitate a massive amount of work, but they still don’t get paid much - it’s hard to justify when you could hire and train up someone to do the same thing nearly as well with very little difficulty.

This seems like it exposes a bias toward thinking in terms of large businesses. (That may be a reasonable bias, at least in the U.S. where it seems like big organizations are only getting bigger and small ones are going out of business.)

In a small business there is less likelihood that the administrative work is meticulously spec'd out. So if an administrative assistant in a small business touching every department, and they are good, chances are work has been offloaded onto them in a way that moves them further from "assisting" and closer to "inexpendable employee who is constantly fleshing out an underspecified business model and iteratively improving it."

I can think of examples where a small business didn't realize this (and some where they went out of business for that reason). But only a handful few where this didn't happen.

If competent administrative assistants in small businesses had any idea of their true value, they'd demand their salary be doubled.

Same logic wrt sales reps. Although in that case, companies at least seem to have realized it and responded by the weirdo pattern of a) providing incentives to attract the best reps, and then b) firing the best reps after a few years on the grounds it's too expensive to keep paying them for consistently hitting their goals and collecting the incentives!

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#312

Post by jbluepolarbear »

airhead969 wrote: post #57
mudita wrote: post #29

I was poor for some time after deciding to quit my computer science phd for a career in art. I guess I still am compared to others, but it does not feel that way any more. When I was really poor, worrying about money and how to pay the next rent was a regular source of stress for me, which took quite a lot of emotional energy. Now I still have much lower income than people, who have regular well-paying jobs, but I do…

Ever slept in a bus station? I have, in the US. I went for 3 years without any healthcare, and then it took another 7 years and a lawyer (who took $16k USD) to get more permanent help. One thing is for certain: with 99.99% of people, their friendliness (or meanness) is proportional to the size of your bank account. If you want to know how people truly are, become actually poor, filthy, and seem depressed, then you wi…

I have, I’ve also lived in a car, showered in gyms/public bathrooms and it sucks. Especially, if you’re trying to keep up an image at work and don’t want them to know you’re homeless.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#313

Post by throwaway0a5e »

cmdkeen wrote: post #68
blackshaw wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, a bunch of things in this article strike me as very American (I'm British). No-one in the UK worries about not being able to afford healthcare if they're poor, nor do they need a car to get to the grocery store in under an hour (unless they live in an isolated home out in the countryside, which probably means they're rich, not poor.) There are many, many places you can live in the UK without needing a car to ge…

Rural poverty is a real thing, and often overlooked by politics / media / society. Rural villages no longer tend to have a shop or post office, the bus services can be erratic and infrequent, it's a real problem. The student rental market 12 or so years ago was definitely full of horror stories about getting deposits returned, knowing which letting agents to go with useful insider knowledge. The Scottish deposit secu…

Student and tourism rentals are worse than the regular rental market because 9x/10 the people getting screwed out of their deposit can afford it so there's less latent "it might actually be worth someone's time to sue you" to keep the landlords in check.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#314

Post by deeeeplearning »

burlesona wrote: post #167

This is a great write-up, and as someone who spent time being poor-ish, it really resonated. What I realized from my own life experience: the US sawed the bottom rungs off the ladder in the 1950s when it suburbanized. There is no affordable housing or transportation in 95% of the North American land area, and virtually every societal problem we deal with either stems from this or is made worse by it. Then the healthc…

>The US is a great place to live and work with tremendous upward mobility

Always confused by this notion. People act as if the US is the only place this is possible but not only is it possible in most of the western world, there is in fact BETTER mobility in the much of the western world relative to the US. The US isn't even in the Top 10!

https://www.businessinsider.com/countries-where-intergenerat...

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#315

Post by grumple »

syops wrote: post #214
throwaway-0987 wrote: post #174

Throwaway because I don't want my co-workers to know. I was poor. My father left home when I was a kid in middle school. My mom worked part time cleaning houses and left us when she found a new husband. I dropped out of high-school in the 9th grade and went to work. Low paying jobs. I lived with my aunt on the bad side of town. Fast-forward 35 years. Today, I make about 200K per year. I got a GED, went to trade schoo…

I very much enjoyed reading your post. You made a statement that, taken literally, I disagree with and wonder if you care to elaborate more on it. I made it and you can too. It seems to me that luck plays a huge role in each success story like yours. My wife had a similar trajectory and makes quite a bit of money. However, along the way, there were hundreds of decisions made that could have gone the wrong way. She's…

I have a similar story and luck played no part of it. I spent lots of time in public libraries and on public computers as a kid. As a result, I got an academic scholarship. A few years after graduating amidst the 2008 economic crisis, I heard about a company that used a particular programming language. I learned that language and convinced someone I knew at the company to get me an interview. I aced the interview and got the job. A lot of studying and a couple of job interviews later and I'm making good money at another company.

If you study the right things, you'll get "lucky" in interviews because the more problems you've seen in the domain, the more likely you are to be tested against the knowledge you've already acquired. But that's clearly not luck - it's preparation. You won't ace every interview, but you'll do well in enough.

I made the wrong decisions several times. I lacked focus in and after university that cost me several years in my twenties. As soon as I made a plan to change things, the plan worked. When a plan goes wrong, you evaluate and make a new plan. Every idea doesn't always work - you just need one that does.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#316

Post by dionidium »

I was glad to see a large section on cars. When I was poor this was a constant issue for me and it wasn't until the very end of my time in poverty that I realized I could just not have one. Obviously, you can't "just not have a car" while not changing anything else about your life. My realization was that I should change literally anything and everything about my life to maximize my ability to survive without owning a car. That is to say, owning a car for a poor person is far more onerous than changing your life around to not need one. This means choosing housing, employment, child care and everything else around the decision not to own a car.

This decision was life-changing.

Cars are very expensive. If you are poor, you cannot afford to own one. Full stop. Think of basically anything else that costs as much as a car costs and then ask yourself if a poor person should buy that thing. Your answer will be no. It should also be "no" with respect to a car.

The writer of course highlights the relevant tradeoffs. Owning a car is very convenient, so most poor people think, well, however hard it is to own this thing it's still a net win. My experience tells me this is wrong. It was not a net win and I wish I'd have figured that out sooner.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#318

Post by abfan1127 »

atty wrote: post #302
YinglingLight wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that luck plays a huge role The concept of Talent Stacking: https://personalexcellence.co/blog/talent-stack/ Those who accrue and leverage a variety of skills tend to get 'lucky'. This is why you could strip most entrepreneurs of all their money and assets, and not be surprised to see them enjoying success in 5 years. You put into place a system that makes making the right decisions inevitable, and lea…

Your idea isn’t backed up by statistics. The vast majority of successful entrepreneurs come from upper-middle class or richer families. If it was just about “building a talent stack”, then the distribution would be relatively flat across all family income distributions. You also missed the part in the article that described how hard it is as a poor person to just find the time and resources necessary to learn those s…

do you have data on this? Are you talking about tech entrepreneurs? My understanding is many self made millionaires come from the trades (plumbing, electricians) starting their own company. I can't find my source, thats why I'm interested in your source.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#319

Post by flumpcakes »

ckemere wrote: post #246

It's really interesting to read this and think about public policy. As someone on the left of center axis, I often imagine what an efficient government intervention would be. (I suppose a more right-wing person might imagine a charity-based solution? I'm not sure.) In this case, the author (who clearly is skilled as a writer and communicator) indirectly identifies a few "public goods" that I think are worth highlight…

I think those issues (apart from 3) are directly reflections on American society. People don't value better public transport and universal healthcare because they are seen as the antithesis of the "American dream" and the idea that working hard brings you wealth.

Unfortunnately we're not in the 1950s and the uncapped growth isn't a thing any more (outside of cryptocurrencies perhaps).

I expect things to probably get worse. It seems everyone is concentrating on social awareness like trying to get women and black people into more high paying jobs, which is a good thing. However this doesn't actually stop the poverty cycle for the other millions of people (including the aforementioned groups).

I think it requires reframing what social care and living in a society means for meaningful change to happen. I think people need to stop seeing wealth as some entrepreneurial thing they can mine for themselves. This "spirit" doesn't improve anyone else's lives, Apart from the select charities and issues they choose to support which aligns with their own social agenda.

I do believe a billionaire shouldn't exist. Or a half a billionaire. That kind of wealth doesn't solve any issues for real people. A wealth tax on the ultra wealthy to pay something towards a healthcare for all (like most western countries have already) might help people though.

Re: On the Experience of Being Poor-Ish, for People Who Aren't

#320

Post by Nemi »

paxys wrote: post #210
spaetzleesser wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just remember that your anxieties are child's play compared to the anxieties of people worrying every day about paying for their place to live, food or health care. These worries are tally different.

People out there having bigger problems does not diminish your own. To me, getting my children into a good public school is a current problem which is giving me anxiety. Someone saying "that's not really a problem, at least you can afford to feed your kids" doesn't come off as helpful or ease my concerns. Similarly, billions of poor people in developing countries would kill to swap places with the poorest American, b…

I once read something that resonated with me (though I can't remember where), in essence that everyone has a default level of stress and anxiety that they feel (a "stress bubble" if you will), and it does not matter so much what your particular life situation is, you tend to fill up the "bubble" with whatever is going on in your life at the time. The idea is that you feel the same amount of stress as a teenager with your social issues as you do as a successful adult with more than enough money to live comfortably.

This really impacted me because I definitely came from a poor-ish background where I lived month to month and only thought about paying rent and whatnot. I then went to community college at 29 to give myself a chance at something else and then ended up making well into 6 figures having worked up to a director of a software company (unheard of in my social circle growing up).

At the time that I read this I remember feeling just as stressed about work things and family issues as I was when I didn't have health care and could barely pay my rent. Looking back, I remembered that I would feel just the same way about friend issues as a teenager when that was my whole world - something I would now scoff at as unimportant and incidental. It helped me realize that a lot of my stress levels were "baked in" to me - but that also meant I could affect my stress levels by being aware of my bubble.

Now when I am feeling stress about my financial portfolio or my kids getting proper education during the pandemic, I make a conscious effort to compare it to the helpless feeling I had when I made no money and felt powerless and that allows me to shrink my stress bubble. I also empathize much more with my kids and when they are stressing about something that my adult self realizes is not consequential. I remember that this is just them "filling their bubble" and to them it is just as important as the things I am dealing with. It also makes me appreciate those people who have a naturally small bubble and realize that that is also often a factor in their success (e.g., though I don't know Elon Musk, I can imagine that he has a naturally small stress bubble that allows him to drive so hard for success).

This is not to criticize you in any way, on the contrary, I agree with you 100%. But it is an empowering way of looking at your life.

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