Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#181

Post by unityByFreedom » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 8:46 AM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #180

unityByFreedom wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought it was interesting that the governments of Cambodia and Vietnam allowed Facebook where the media is tightly controlled. Cambodia used to have a couple independent papers. The Post became state-controlled-by-proxy [1] and the Daily was shut down by the government [2]. The existence and popularity of Facebook basically allowed them to shut down the older independent outlets without significant outcry f…

I guess facebook tends to be cat pics and wackiness rather than deep analysis of government corruption. Also in Vietnam they lock up the individual blogger if you go to far. eg https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1947372/vietnam-jails-face...

Locking someone up for disagreeing with you just highlights your insecurity. And I think the point here is that Facebook is a primary news source for many people. It may be enabling government censorship due to the company's monopolistic status.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#182

Post by boomboomsubban » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 10:13 AM UTC

sdeframond wrote: post #67

boomboomsubban wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>should be No, "is" is correct. Everybody has the same intrinsic right to free speech at birth. You think that given communities should choose for themselves whether that right can be infringed. This is basically the US' answer to the "divine right of monarchy." If you say that speech "should be" the right l of every individual, you are giving the government an automatic place of authority over the citizen,claiming t…

Yes it is correct, in theory at least ;)

There is no "theory," these things aren't based on science.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#183

Post by cblconfederate » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 11:51 AM UTC

sudosysgen wrote: post #155

sgift wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, the revolutions in Europe (which lead to democratization) happened because of whatever happened in Africa, India and the Americas? Or what do you mean?

They were a big factor in making such models sustainable and widespread, yes.

All the former ottoman empire states (which revolted) were impoverished themselves

Perhaps it would help, if making a historical claim, to at least reference what's the factual basis for it.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#184

Post by tim333 » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 12:26 PM UTC

unityByFreedom wrote: post #181

tim333 wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess facebook tends to be cat pics and wackiness rather than deep analysis of government corruption. Also in Vietnam they lock up the individual blogger if you go to far. eg https://www.bangkokpost.com/world/1947372/vietnam-jails-face...

Locking someone up for disagreeing with you just highlights your insecurity. And I think the point here is that Facebook is a primary news source for many people. It may be enabling government censorship due to the company's monopolistic status.

Though I'd say the governments there are fairly secure. The Vietnamese communist party has been in power since 1945, China's since '49 and the Cambodian lot only got kicked out when Pol Pot, after having genocided a third of the population, attacked Vietnam who then invaded and got rid of him, and the new lot have been in power since 1984. Sadly throwing opponents in jail seems to kind of work. This of course predates facebook.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#185

Post by sdeframond » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 1:15 PM UTC

boomboomsubban wrote: post #182

sdeframond wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes it is correct, in theory at least ;)

There is no "theory," these things aren't based on science.

What I mean is that I don't know any community without practical limitations on free speech.

The way I see it, we decided as a society that every individual was entitled to fundamental human rights. We also decided in practice that it would be good to put limits on some of these rights, especially when one interferes with another (try insulting a cop or denying the Shoah for example, or insulting the King in Thailand, etc etc). Different communities/countries have different views on what limitations to apply, even though they may all agree on these fundamental human rights.

Regarding FB's policy in foreign countries, the case can made that they should respect those countries' choices, even though they are different from USA's choices. Otherwise it can arguably be perceived as US imperialism.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#186

Post by unityByFreedom » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:03 PM UTC

tim333 wrote: post #184

unityByFreedom wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Locking someone up for disagreeing with you just highlights your insecurity. And I think the point here is that Facebook is a primary news source for many people. It may be enabling government censorship due to the company's monopolistic status.

Though I'd say the governments there are fairly secure. The Vietnamese communist party has been in power since 1945, China's since '49 and the Cambodian lot only got kicked out when Pol Pot, after having genocided a third of the population, attacked Vietnam who then invaded and got rid of him, and the new lot have been in power since 1984. Sadly throwing opponents in jail seems to kind of work. This of course predate…

That remains to be seen. The world has been trending towards democracy for a few hundred years.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#187

Post by toomanybeersies » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:24 PM UTC

nradov wrote: post #130

toomanybeersies wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not really the job of a private company to undermine nations in this way for simple reasons of sovereignty That may be the case (or not), except this isn't a principled stance that Facebook is taking, but a business decision. Facebook have absolutely no issue with undermining a nation's sovereignty when it suits them. For example, in protest against Australia's new News Media Bargaining Code, they went and blo…

I fail to see how blocking sharing of news links undermined Australia's sovereignty. The Australian government gave Facebook a choice to either pay up or exit the news business and they chose the latter. So they are in compliance with local law.

The News Media Bargaining Code is not yet law, and didn't even pass its final reading until after Facebook enacted their ban, so Facebook was under no legal obligation to block links to news websites. They were in compliance with local law regardless.

What Facebook did was a blatant attempt to influence the legislative process. It was the equivalent of a nation enacting an export ban due to threats of tariffs.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#188

Post by sudosysgen » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:42 PM UTC

cblconfederate wrote: post #183

sudosysgen wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were a big factor in making such models sustainable and widespread, yes.

All the former ottoman empire states (which revolted) were impoverished themselves Perhaps it would help, if making a historical claim, to at least reference what's the factual basis for it.

Yes, and none of those states implemented anything anywhere close to the western model. We're not talking about general revolt.

The reason why imperialism was important is because it allowed the European upper classes to persist in a position of material advantage despite decreasing their oppression of their citizens. It was certainly a strong contribution to convincing European upper classes to accept social restructure.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#189

Post by mclightning » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 2:46 PM UTC

cblconfederate wrote: post #183

sudosysgen wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They were a big factor in making such models sustainable and widespread, yes.

All the former ottoman empire states (which revolted) were impoverished themselves Perhaps it would help, if making a historical claim, to at least reference what's the factual basis for it.

You obviously have no idea about ottoman empire; why it rose to power, its tax system as oppose to byzantine empire, why christian states co-operated with ottomans... This will be my last entry under this thread.

Ottoman tax system was favourable in comparison to Byzantine empire. Ottomans and ruling class of Christian states even had marriages between their families for centuries.

Comparing that to the colonies of industrial era West is just fantasy. Both from time & complexity perspective. Plus the cultural/oppression perspective.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#190

Post by boomboomsubban » Mon, Mar 01, 2021, 5:08 PM UTC

sdeframond wrote: post #185

boomboomsubban wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no "theory," these things aren't based on science.

What I mean is that I don't know any community without practical limitations on free speech. The way I see it, we decided as a society that every individual was entitled to fundamental human rights. We also decided in practice that it would be good to put limits on some of these rights, especially when one interferes with another (try insulting a cop or denying the Shoah for example, or insulting the King in Thailand…

Everything you mention is separate from my point, which has nothing to do with free speech. You're view is that practical limitations on free speech are limits placed on a freedom granted you, while I'd say they are infringements allowed on my inherent right.

Your notion that this is a small nitpick, or a theory that may be disproved is the wrong way of looking at it. It's two separate ways of looking at the same thing, neither more or less true than the other.