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Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

reuters.com

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Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#31

Post by fwsgonzo »

refurb wrote: post #25
gonzo41 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the electric grid falls in that category of service, like the military where the market is potentially a bad solution. So in this regard. The electric company was able to be negligent to their personal benefit of 1.8 billion dollars of unfunded liability it created. And then they call bankruptcy and that's the end of that chapter.

That’s a massive stretch for “socialize the losses”. By that logic any time a business fails and it impacts a lot of people the losses have “been socialized”. And CA is far from a free market. The PUC has PG&E on a short leash and the results have been a disaster. Edit: Replying - No, bankruptcy is actually the exact opposite of socializing losses.

How do you think the bankrupt utility will start up again?

Hint: Socialized costs.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#32

Post by [deleted] »

waterhouse wrote: post #20
bsder wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could say that CA and TX are demonstrating that deregulation is a failed strategy. "Vital infrastructure" and "market driven" are rarely a good match.

The infrastructure to produce food is pretty vital, but I think it's also mostly market-driven and works well. I think the issues around power utilities are more to do with a lack of competition, and legislation that creates perverse incentives. (I don't know what the current perverse incentives are, but at least as of 2010, an energy startup founder said[1] that power companies were legislated monopolies that were "…

[deleted]

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#36

Post by simonh »

diveanon wrote: post #19
A12-B wrote: post #13

Elon Musk making the move to Texas specifically to avoid the regulation that would have helped stop this from happening, would be kicking himself right now if he was in any way affected by this or consistent in his beliefs.

Elon Musk is another Trump in the making. Only difference is Elon Musk is smart enough not to foot gun himself when he actually asserts his power.

"Still not pointy enough. Oh, and make the next one gold. I wonder if rhinestones would work for heat shielding - check it out."

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#37

Post by dalbasal »

refurb wrote: post #12
bsder wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could say that CA and TX are demonstrating that deregulation is a failed strategy. "Vital infrastructure" and "market driven" are rarely a good match.

To say CA is "deregulated" is kind of a bastardization of the term.

Honestly, there are few usages of the terms "deregulation" that aren't bastardized.

It very rarely refers to a removal of laws. Deregulation can mean a change of laws, change of regulator, establishing a regulating consortium... etc. One deregulation doesn't necessarily have anything in common with another.

We've reached a meta stage where "deregulation" means the types of policies favoured by the deregulation camp.

It's not like Texas' grid is actually unregulated. They have their own regulatory structure. It's just kinda sorta supposed to behave like a unregulated grid would... if that sort of thing was actually possible.

Extreme results in extreme conditions are more or less intentional. It's never going to be economical to prepare for 10 year events to avoid a few days of lost revenue. That, in deregulation-camp terms, means that it is a bad investment and wasteful.

The whole pricing debacle is a great case in point: "ERCOT triggered the squeeze when it pushed up spot-market rates to $9,000 per megawatt hour"

On one hand, the heart of the "deregulation" idea here is that "regulation" destroys pricing systems. On the other hand, what kind of a laissez faire market has a body that sets prices? In this case, it seems like there is a price regulator that is trying to replicate a failure in pricing systems... when demand and supply curves don't intersect and price goes to infinity.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#38

Post by 29athrowaway »

diveanon wrote: post #19
A12-B wrote: post #13

Elon Musk making the move to Texas specifically to avoid the regulation that would have helped stop this from happening, would be kicking himself right now if he was in any way affected by this or consistent in his beliefs.

Elon Musk is another Trump in the making. Only difference is Elon Musk is smart enough not to foot gun himself when he actually asserts his power.

He was not born in America so he cannot be a president.

Re: Texas electric firm files for bankruptcy citing $1.8B in claims

#40

Post by klodolph »

waterhouse wrote: post #20
bsder wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or you could say that CA and TX are demonstrating that deregulation is a failed strategy. "Vital infrastructure" and "market driven" are rarely a good match.

The infrastructure to produce food is pretty vital, but I think it's also mostly market-driven and works well. I think the issues around power utilities are more to do with a lack of competition, and legislation that creates perverse incentives. (I don't know what the current perverse incentives are, but at least as of 2010, an energy startup founder said[1] that power companies were legislated monopolies that were "…

If you don't like the supermarket or farm, you can shop elsewhere. The infrastructure that brings food to our tables is roads and railways, the power grid which brings electricity to refrigerators and freezers, and water and sewage utilities.

A supermarket or a farm are not part of our infrastructure. They may be "vital" but they are not infrastructure.

You (as an individual) can't really comparison shop for infrastructure, unless you want to move.

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