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Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

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Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#131

Post by LegitShady »

mclightning wrote: post #95
cblconfederate wrote: post #80

Topic being overrun by expat turks who are Erdogan apologizers. Not the first, not the last, but thankfully the truth is not subject to upvotes

This shallow understanding of Turkish politics, is gonna come to impact western influence in middle east adversely very soon. More so European interests in short term, and US influence globally on the long run. I have been reading comments similar to yours. Your view is nothing but naive / pure romanticism. There is a large amount of us (Turks of all opinions), just reading silently. Yet you are confident enough to s…

>If this is an orchestrated divide. I don't mind West being so ignorant of Turkey.

The west is so deep in turkey they know what color underwear edrogan wears each morning. You're mistaking PR with reality. The west misunderstanding turkey is much more likely to hurt turkey in the long run, than hurt the west.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#132

Post by LegitShady »

sdeframond wrote: post #63
cblconfederate wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a Human Right according to the UN declaration. https://www.un.org/en/universal-declaration-human-rights/ both Turkey and facebooks home, the US , have signed it

That's correct. As an anecdote, I was pretty shocked when some foreigner friend told me "universal" human rights can actually be perceived as more of a "western imperialism" thing. While I still think human rights are a thing, I can understand that they have been used hypocritically many times through history. Regarding TFA, I am unsure whether I'd rather FB to impose US's views on freespeech to Turkey or to respect…

>Regarding TFA, I am unsure whether I'd rather FB to impose US's views on freespeech to Turkey or to respect whatever the local government is telling it to do.

You have it backwards, facebook et al will slowly kill free speech in the US while claiming to be pro free speech.

We have before us the greatest setup for fascism in history, and these tech companies should allow themselves to be banned from countries before cooperating with governments to silence speech.

Instead expect them to help authoritarians silence dissent.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#133

Post by LegitShady »

marshmallow_12 wrote: post #37
vbezhenar wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Freedom of speech/expression is a right of every individual on this planet I'm not aware of any country with unlimited speech. Definitely not US or EU countries. I'm not observing huge pushback from US citizens, business and other countries when Facebook and Twitter tried to silence Trump and some other conservative leaders. There are topics that are forbidden by law to discuss in EU, for example to deny Holocaust.…

> Freedom of speech/expression is a right of every individual on this planet I do think that it's slightly more nuanced. On certain issues there is no freedom of speech. This is when it is determined that the opinions expressed are detrimental to the human race and largely false. Nazi beliefs are in this category. They are so harmful to the public that individual freedom is quashed. incitement to murder is another. Y…

>This is when it is determined that the opinions expressed are detrimental to the human race and largely false.

Then any speech that threatens power structures will be determined to be detrimental, and banned.

The only way to protect speech is to protect speech, even if you dislike it. That's why the ACLU, before they were coopted as they are today, defended nazis in illinois.

Don't be short sighted, be long sighted. Today its nazis, 60 years ago its was activists. Same rules.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#134

Post by nindalf »

true_religion wrote: post #114
nindalf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a thin line between taking a principled stand and forcefully exporting your values to some other culture. For example, Germany outlaws Holocaust denial. It's not a crime in the US. Should Facebook follow German laws by taking down posts denying the Holocaust? Obviously they should follow local laws, most of us would agree. Here's the thing - there's only two principled stands here. Either tech giants always f…

Tech giants can’t force anything on anyone without being enabled by the local government. If Facebook does not follow German law, Germany will ban it and seize its German assets to pay the fines it owes.

That's fine. So the same thing applies to Turkish law?

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#135

Post by LegitShady »

jmacjmac wrote: post #82
_bohm wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that I'm very far removed from these events, I don't think it's my place to make strong judgements about what is and isn't justified in what has obviously been a very long and bitter conflict. That being said, I don't think the PKK explicitly uses these past offenses to justify their continued activity in the conflict. My understanding is that they continue fighting because the Turkish Kurds still lack any mean…

Just to clarify, %20-25 of the population is Kurdish in Turkey. In elections, PKK affiliated legal party gets half of the Kurdish votes and other half goes to Erdogan roughly. So, there is no single Kurdish identity in Turkey, more like split between these two. Ofcourse, there is a few percent which is not among these two. So, if you ask is there any Kurdish people in the government, yes there are a lot. Erdogan gets…

> So, if they really care about democratic, secular Turkey, they can put guns aside, get together with opposition in Turkey.

On the flip side, learn the lesson from the iranian revolution. When religious extremists control the government and want to impose their religion on anyone, who holds the guns is the most important questions.

giving them up might be the surrender and death of democratic secular turkey, over time.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#136

Post by alienalp »

hnarn wrote: post #92
alienalp wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YPG is terrorist organization according to Turkey and many relevant countries and even US officials don't deny its connections with PKK. They maybe freedom fighters for Biden but it is not seen that way in middle east. Especially to whom lost their kids in car bombs.

I didn't mention YPG and neither did the comment I replied to, which is why I posed a general question.

Okay then we have no problem :) But he is also not saying what you are asking if he is saying.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#137

Post by toxik »

Ahmed90 wrote: post #41

It's an obvious "following the local law" thingy, Facebook doesn't give a s*t, I personally reported 3 posts on different FB pages 1st was a religion extremist guy who says to Iraqi people that they should protest and fight the "other side" of the religion (aka start a new civil war) instead of protesting against the corrupted government. 2nd was a post that was praising the guy who murdered the Danish (Or was he Nor…

Paty was French, where did you get Danish or Norwegian from?

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#139

Post by Ahmed90 »

toxik wrote: post #137
Ahmed90 wrote: post #41

It's an obvious "following the local law" thingy, Facebook doesn't give a s*t, I personally reported 3 posts on different FB pages 1st was a religion extremist guy who says to Iraqi people that they should protest and fight the "other side" of the religion (aka start a new civil war) instead of protesting against the corrupted government. 2nd was a post that was praising the guy who murdered the Danish (Or was he Nor…

Paty was French, where did you get Danish or Norwegian from?

Idk, a brain fart I guess.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#140

Post by monadic6 »

cblconfederate wrote: post #87
egeozcan wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Turkish immigrant in Germany, I really find the word "expat" irritating. Why should I make it explicitly clear that my immigration happened on my own terms? Apart from that, the sheer amount of Turkish immigrants who left the country in the last decade (including me) are not Erdoğan supporters. However, many of us refrain from heavy criticism as we occasionally go to Turkey to visit our relatives and we don't wa…

> many of us refrain from heavy criticism If the people who can speak up don't speak up then how is change ever to be expected? This is btw not what usually happens in such situations (immigrants fleeing authoritarianism are generally vocal against it)

Judging by the US, speaking up doesn't matter at all and can only hurt you and your family.
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