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Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

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Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#121

Post by mclightning »

sgift wrote: post #113
mclightning wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FTFY : Germans, and Europeans generally, have put the security of people of color in Africa, India, Americas and their families in jeopardy over half a thousand year to democratise systems across their population to live in free and open societies that we are now able to migrate to.

So, the revolutions in Europe (which lead to democratization) happened because of whatever happened in Africa, India and the Americas? Or what do you mean?

...whatever happened in Africa...(tumbleweed rolls by)

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#122

Post by Ozzie_osman »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #98
egeozcan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I put the security of my family in jeopardy hopelessly trying to improve a country that I already gave up on? I love Germany, I'd rather work improving where I'm living, which is something I'm already trying to do, instead of getting stuck in the past.

Germans, and Europeans generally, have put the security of themselves and their families in jeopardy over thousands of years to live in the free and open societies that you are now taking for granted.

You really shouldn't judge people (positively or negatively) by what their ancestors fought for or didn't fight for, especially under oppressive regimes.

Because it's ironic that you'd mention Germany, a country where the majority either supported or was silent as one of the most brutal regimes rose to power. It took armies of foreign powers to come in and change that.

Sometimes people speak up and sometimes they don't. The math is complicated. Do they think it will actually have an impact? What do they stand to lose? How desperate are they? The Arab Spring showed that sometimes all it takes is one or two events to switch people from being silent and passive to being vocal and active. Unfortunately, that didn't turn out too well and the repercussions will favor more passivity.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#123

Post by toomanybeersies »

Barrin92 wrote: post #29

It's the correct decision (although Facebook likely only cares about its bottom line). the YPG is designated as a terrorist organisation by the Turkish state and it's quite obvious that Turkey will want to exercise sovereignty over its communication channels rather than letting an opposing military force broadcast freely to its citizens. It's not really the job of a private company to undermine nations in this way fo…

> It's not really the job of a private company to undermine nations in this way for simple reasons of sovereignty

That may be the case (or not), except this isn't a principled stance that Facebook is taking, but a business decision. Facebook have absolutely no issue with undermining a nation's sovereignty when it suits them.

For example, in protest against Australia's new News Media Bargaining Code, they went and blocked Australians from being able to share news articles.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#124

Post by ruined »

ArkanExplorer wrote: post #98
egeozcan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I put the security of my family in jeopardy hopelessly trying to improve a country that I already gave up on? I love Germany, I'd rather work improving where I'm living, which is something I'm already trying to do, instead of getting stuck in the past.

Germans, and Europeans generally, have put the security of themselves and their families in jeopardy over thousands of years to live in the free and open societies that you are now taking for granted.

gentle reminder: germany's current civil system was imposed by military occupation.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#125

Post by KDJohnBrown »

postingawayonhn wrote: post #9
vbezhenar wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good approach. Country must be able to control content served to their citizens. And that ruling should not be extended to other countries. Citizens can either elect different president or use VPN.

Freedom of speech/expression is a right of every individual on this planet. Any regime that does not support that should face pushback from its citizens, businesses, and other countries.

Who exactly bestows these rights upon people?

Governments? Türkiye outlaws free speech through arbitary terror laws (see: HDP politicians imprisoned, members of Grupo Yorum who died of hunger protests for not being allowed to sing). Turkiye also has libel laws which basically outlaw free speech. tayipp has successfully sued many thousands of people for speaking afainst him.

Religion? Turks are mostly muslim. Blasphemy, apostacy, mocking the prophet or drawing pictures or him are all punishable by death in Islam.

The concept of universal or inalienable rights is noble and righteous in theory, but imaginary in practice.

Turks have allowed Tayipp to stomp all over the constitution (illegally acting as prime minister when he was president, rewriting the constitution under a state of emergency, violating libel laws by regularly insulting kurds, chp, hdp, christians, jews and zoroastrians, violating the secularity laws and arresting hundreds of thousands of people under allged ties to fetö), and Turks keep allowing it.

Even Atatürk banned turbanli women from working in government.

Turks have willingly rejected western-style free speech for a relatively improved economy and a sense of national pride.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#126

Post by KDJohnBrown »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #101
jacquesm wrote: post #51

An enemy of Erdogan, not necessarily an enemy of Turkey.

The old-school Ataturkists who are the opposite flank of Turkish politics from Erdoğan’s party, were the very people who started this denial of Kurdish identity and territorial autonomy or independence. It isn’t just Erdoğan who has a problem with those Kurdish groups, it is Turkish society overall.

(“Kemalists” is the correct term here)

I have an incredible amount of respect and admiration for Atatürk but he also had his flaws when it came to freedom of speech, expression and religion.

What’s interesting is all of the liberal turks I know (I live in Istanbul) voted for the HDP in 2015 but are also highly critical of their association with PKK and have since switched to CHP.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#129

Post by LegitShady »

waheoo wrote: post #94
cblconfederate wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many of us refrain from heavy criticism If the people who can speak up don't speak up then how is change ever to be expected? This is btw not what usually happens in such situations (immigrants fleeing authoritarianism are generally vocal against it)

An American making statements about standing up and speaking out against oppression and free speech is fucking laughable these days. You're all stuck in a bubble and can't even see that your entire tech industry is pulling a fast one over liberty and democracy.

The greatest threat to liberty and democracy today are the big tech companies, agreed.

Re: Facebook blocked posts by a militia group opposed to the Turkish government

#130

Post by nradov »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #123
Barrin92 wrote: post #29

It's the correct decision (although Facebook likely only cares about its bottom line). the YPG is designated as a terrorist organisation by the Turkish state and it's quite obvious that Turkey will want to exercise sovereignty over its communication channels rather than letting an opposing military force broadcast freely to its citizens. It's not really the job of a private company to undermine nations in this way fo…

> It's not really the job of a private company to undermine nations in this way for simple reasons of sovereignty That may be the case (or not), except this isn't a principled stance that Facebook is taking, but a business decision. Facebook have absolutely no issue with undermining a nation's sovereignty when it suits them. For example, in protest against Australia's new News Media Bargaining Code, they went and blo…

I fail to see how blocking sharing of news links undermined Australia's sovereignty. The Australian government gave Facebook a choice to either pay up or exit the news business and they chose the latter. So they are in compliance with local law.
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