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Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

latimes.com

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Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#41

Post by vinger »

lambdasquirrel wrote: post #24
ceilingcorner wrote: post #12

I’d have a lot less issue with companies selling to China if they didn’t simultaneously pretend to be moral forces for good. Michael Jordan understood this years ago and I will forever have more respect for him than Lebron and his selective activism. As they say, a man’s true character comes to light in hardship; and there is nothing difficult about adopting the moral crusade of the day back here in the so-called Fre…

What good would it do for anyone if Apple were to follow the way Google did? People in China wouldn't have freer access to the non-China internet, or less heavy-handed government intervention, if they had to VPN from Lenovo laptop instead of a Mac. I think this is unhelpful for the ideals that Westerners like to have, specifically because it's a moral crusade.

It makes Apple products highly valuable in China in an economy outside of the government's control. Having a bigger black market in China encourages freedom. It would be a huge deal.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#42

Post by ceilingcorner »

jmknoll wrote: post #40
ceilingcorner wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not saying Jordan is a moral hero, but that he isn’t a hypocrite. I appreciate the cold professionalism far more than the hypocrisy of someone like LeBron.

What do you see as the hypocrisy of LeBron? He's a successful athlete, and also is a person concerned about racism and institutional failings in his country and in his community. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Plenty of athletes have used their positions to advocate for causes unrelated to sport. Think about Muhammad Ali losing his title for refusing to fight in Vietnam. The odd man out here is Michael J…

Are you familiar with his comments on Morey’s tweet regarding Hong Kong?

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#44

Post by Simulacra »

bastard_op wrote: post #15

Tell China no, they extricate you from the country, and rewrite history that you never existed. Tell the FBI no, they'll posture, threaten, and sue, but not do anything too extreme that can't be payed off with lobbying and other backdoor political activity. Apple won't bite the rather large hand that feeds them, or manufactures 100% all of their overpriced gadgets that supply them profits from the rest of the world.…

I disagree about the FBI, they can still make life miserable if they wanted to, just look at Michael Flynn. If the FBI wanted to, they could force Apple, but it wouldn't be pretty. IMO the problem with the FBI vs Apple is that the FBI is afraid of pissing off Apple, because the company has better, wealthier, more powerful friends.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#45

Post by Judgmentality »

Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #35
Judgmentality wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they really don't need Apple other than as a brand I'd say that alone makes Apple worthwhile to China. I don't think China will be able to make a global brand like Apple in my lifetime.

> I don't think China will be able to make a global brand like Apple in my lifetime. In my part of Europe (and whenever traveling in Africa), I see more Huawei ads in the street on any given day than Apple ones. Apple is a global brand, but it is also a premium global brand, meaning it is only visible where salaries are high enough for people to afford it. Huawei and Xiaomi, on the other hand, are both global and aff…

All your points are valid and I'm not saying China can't make a brand. But you're comparing Pepsi to Coke. Everybody knows which one is more desirable.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#46

Post by cko »

ceilingcorner wrote: post #42
jmknoll wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you see as the hypocrisy of LeBron? He's a successful athlete, and also is a person concerned about racism and institutional failings in his country and in his community. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Plenty of athletes have used their positions to advocate for causes unrelated to sport. Think about Muhammad Ali losing his title for refusing to fight in Vietnam. The odd man out here is Michael J…

Are you familiar with his comments on Morey’s tweet regarding Hong Kong?

I mean, in the 'silence is violence' era, public figures are condemned for NOT publicly condemning things that 'should' be condemned.

At the same time, I understand why people don't want to bite the hand that feeds them, so it can get tricky as a public figure. On one hand, yes I see the inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their actions, but I make it a habit to remember that if I were in their shoes, I may not do any 'better', so who am I to judge.

Since we are talking about the NBA, Charles Barkley famously said "I am not a role model" where I'm not sure it's easy to get away with that today.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#47

Post by ceilingcorner »

cko wrote: post #46
ceilingcorner wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you familiar with his comments on Morey’s tweet regarding Hong Kong?

I mean, in the 'silence is violence' era, public figures are condemned for NOT publicly condemning things that 'should' be condemned. At the same time, I understand why people don't want to bite the hand that feeds them, so it can get tricky as a public figure. On one hand, yes I see the inconsistencies and hypocrisies in their actions, but I make it a habit to remember that if I were in their shoes, I may not do any…

Lebron could have easily said “no comment” or “I don’t know enough about the situation to weigh in.”

Instead, he gave an absurd statement about the tweet “hurting people spiritually” purely because he has a lot of financial interests in China. Hence my charge of hypocrisy.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#48

Post by Mediterraneo10 »

Judgmentality wrote: post #45
Mediterraneo10 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think China will be able to make a global brand like Apple in my lifetime. In my part of Europe (and whenever traveling in Africa), I see more Huawei ads in the street on any given day than Apple ones. Apple is a global brand, but it is also a premium global brand, meaning it is only visible where salaries are high enough for people to afford it. Huawei and Xiaomi, on the other hand, are both global and aff…

All your points are valid and I'm not saying China can't make a brand. But you're comparing Pepsi to Coke. Everybody knows which one is more desirable.

"Pepsi" is now the generic word for "soft drink" in a number of countries. So, not a good example. And you overestimate how much more desirable Apple seems over Chinese brands in the developing world: millions and millions of people have never even seen an Apple device nor any advertising for it, while Chinese products are their world.

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#49

Post by tomComb »

CharlesW wrote: post #26
jeswin wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google's withdrawal from China in 2010 stands out as perhaps the most eminently courageous move a technology mega-corp has made against a powerful nation state. The tragedy is that the world didn't care - signaling perhaps to all future decisions makers that, well, the we don't really care. Not only did we not appreciate the significance of what happened or reward the deed, we have adopted in these peak social media…

The lore is that Google heroically pulled out of China because they wouldn't compromise the purity of their search results. The reality is somewhat more complex—in short, Google played chicken with China and lost. "In the end, though, it wasn’t censorship or competition that drove Google out of China. It was a far-­reaching hacking attack known as Operation Aurora that targeted everything from Google’s intellectual p…

The 'lore' that I've always heard is that Google pulled out due to both censorship and privacy, in that the attack succeeded against some user accounts.

At the time they were the #2 search engine in China, and when they pulled out MS saw it as an opportunity to try to take their place. This came back to mind last week when spoke about their noble willingness to take Google's place in Australia - to do the right thing in support of a just law (/s).

Re: Apple works with China but not the FBI (2016)

#50

Post by tomComb »

clapper wrote: post #22
ceilingcorner wrote: post #12

I’d have a lot less issue with companies selling to China if they didn’t simultaneously pretend to be moral forces for good. Michael Jordan understood this years ago and I will forever have more respect for him than Lebron and his selective activism. As they say, a man’s true character comes to light in hardship; and there is nothing difficult about adopting the moral crusade of the day back here in the so-called Fre…

Ah so because I don't take action against something I can't change, I shouldn't take action about things I can change. Guess I should start beef again because I don't do anything about the Uyghurs.

Your suggesting that Apple standing up to China would have no positive impact?
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