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Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
41–50 of 176 posts
Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
#42Obviously there is reluctance to support a ruler implicated in murder. Yet Saudi Arabia's oil-based economy has been recognized as a problem and risk for the country's own innocent people and there have long been hopes of diversification into other industries. That these investment schemes are linked to the Saudi government should not be too much cause for upset, because the Saudi Arabian populace benefits from a str…
Private individuals choose who they want to do business with, including who they take money from. Your argument really goes both ways. If the sovereign citizens of Saudi Arabia want their national wealth invested in private industry, maybe they need to first change their country to be the sort of place these investment seekers want to do business with. There's great examples of positive changes toward business and in…
Welfare states depend on economies of scale that only states can provide. Switching to a culture of totally private mode of investment would mean an end to the welfare state and the slipping of much of the population into precarity. So, the best thing for both Saudis and the world would be politically liberalizing moves that maintain all that state investment and high standard of living, but with authorities that aren't corrupt murderers.
However, as we have abundantly seen in the Middle East, making life worse for the populace tends to hinder those very moves towards more just government because of the resentment it breeds.
Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
#43American relationship with "Middle Eastern North Korea" must be destroyed, severed, set on fire, and beshamed. Along with Guatanamo base, it's the biggest stain on US credibility in international relations. In other words, US can't dictate its allies who can they make friends with without taking the prickly subject of Saudi Arabia, and its chainsaw prince off the table.
Pretty sure the Iraq War was the biggest stain on US credibility. Also there's a strong argument that the US support of Israel's occupation of Palestine (and by that I mean Israeli rightwing government, not the many good and courageous Israelis who fight for peace) is the next biggest stain on US credibility in international relations. It's been the single most consistently pointed to example of US hypocrisy that has run for decades. Consistently pointed to by radical Islamic preachers who wise to push people towards violence. Saudi of course is a closely followed third.
Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
#44Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
#45This is one of those nerdbait topics. Every tunnel in the rabbit warren splits into more and everyone ends up arguing with themselves about completely disparate topics.
Does money have a nationality? / If you owe the bank a million, it owns you. If you owe the bank a billion, you own the bank. Does that apply here? / Taking money from morally questionable people... what about X? / Is Saudi Arabia going to liberalize? Will there be a republican revolution? Do monarchies suck? / Islamic banking? / Foreign shareholders = censorship?
Down in my tunnel... I'm getting kind of fascinated by these sovereign wealth funds. Norway, being democratic and having a better run wealth fund, is a better example. The last 15 years of bull markets have been sort of fraught. Government and personal debts got big, as asset prices grew. Sovereign wealth funds give the government/public a stake... and countries that have these are in very strong positions.
It makes so much more sense to hold stocks and bonds than gold and forex... maybe. That way, national treasuries finance real economic activity.
In an adjoining tunnel someone is worried about malinvestments.
Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
#46Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
#47When I was fundraising for my startup, after pitching I always emailed to ask about the LPs and if there's any Saudi/oil money in the pool. More than 10 firms just ghosted me after that email, potentially because they think it's poor form to ask about LPs. (edit:We were still able to raise over $3.5MM seed though, so don't necessarily let asking put you off.)
> potentially because they think it's poor form to ask about LPs.
It is, but I'm not sure it's for the reasons you are implying. First and foremost, Saudi money and oil money is an enormous part of global wealth /full stop/. That deep degree of intermixing happened decades ago; there's no putting that cat back in the bag. Asking a question like this to VCs who you are ostensibly trying to make a good first impression upon is akin to telling someone that you don't have sex on the first date. Perhaps you don't, but phrasing it that way is a seriously tonedeaf way to signal it.
If your primary motivation as a founder is to raise "untainted" money rather than money on good terms and from partners who can help you, I wonder whether you should be fundraising for a VC funded startup at all. This isn't meant as a dig at you -- I just think that the VC funded startup path is often considered a default path, and there are a lot of founders with amazing things to offer the world that might benefit from alternate financing more than VC. If you're concerned about LP fund sources for VC, then alternate funding may be something worth considering.
Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
#48> What does it mean for American innovation to be backed by oil wealth? > Uber. WeWork. Flexport. Slack. MapBox. DoorDash. Chat app? Office rentals? Adding a layer of ripping off restaurants to food delivery? If this is the “American innovation” the Saudis want a piece of, let them have it.
It's probably less about raw "innovation" and more about integrating themselves within the fabric of American society. This achieves simultaneous financial investment and political insurance.
I think DoorDash, MapBox, FlexPort, and WeWork are far less integrated into the fabric of American society than you might suspect. Slack I suspect will hang around for awhile out of corporate inertia.
I can only hope Uber is on its way out. But markets staying irrational longer than I can stay solvent, yada yada yada.
Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
#49... what is the problem here? Investment is being made and people are better off for it. Isn't this how trickle down works?
Unfortunate to see you buried for asking a simple question (that I also had). So, take an upvote from me, for what it's worth. Either way, thanks for taking a hit for those of us wondering what the issue was.
The capitalist mentality is becoming deeply unpopular, and I'm curious to see how it will play out. It no longer seems "okay" in a certain sense to simply focus on the money without considering the ethical implications.
I remember this kind of thing being an issue several years ago, when a certain Russian investor was courting a lot of unicorns and offering some pretty incredible termsheets that you'd be foolish to turn down.
Re: Silicon Valley Runs on Saudi (2019)
#50American relationship with "Middle Eastern North Korea" must be destroyed, severed, set on fire, and beshamed. Along with Guatanamo base, it's the biggest stain on US credibility in international relations. In other words, US can't dictate its allies who can they make friends with without taking the prickly subject of Saudi Arabia, and its chainsaw prince off the table.
I'm not sure HN is the place for this, but it's not exactly up to me. Calling a country "Middle Eastern North Korea" in the first sentence isn't really conducive to a nice intellectual discussion on the merits of taking Saudi investment though. I guess what rubs me the wrong way about this is that it's very easy to write an incendiary toplevel comment. The story was posted about 35 minutes ago. Looking over the other…
> Calling a country "Middle Eastern North Korea" in the first sentence isn't really conducive to a nice intellectual discussion on the merits of taking Saudi investment though.
Calling Saudi kingdom the Middle Eastern North Korea is the best what you can do to conduct a "nice intellectual discussion" you want.
Intellectual discussion is calling things their real names. It is a total intellectual dishonesty, and hypocrisy to pretend it isn't, while trying to have any conversation about Saudi state with a straight face.