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Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

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Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#701

Post by afiori »

goatsi wrote: post #499
tmccrary55 wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how a link to Facebook's recent data selling scandal, in a discussion about whether Facebook sells data, gets voted down.

Because that wasn't a data selling scandal? Cambridge Analytica didn't buy data on millions of people from Facebook, they harvested it for free due to lax permissions.

I guess they paid for that service and the reason they paid why they paid was the possibility to gather data. they had to gather the data themselves, but that is the difference between robbing an house and opening someone else door to robbers

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#702

Post by varispeed »

cacarr wrote: post #669
varispeed wrote: post #312

I think the Facebook case shouldn't be left to the market to "sort itself out", but instead this type of business model should be banned in its entirety, just like people cannot run ponzi schemes, they shouldn't also run "free" services in exchange for processing personal data.

Take a bunch of useful services away from poor people. No Gmail for you, poor person! Nice.

That's not a great excuse. There are other ways to make money while not using personal data.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#703

Post by User23 »

BoorishBears wrote: post #519
User23 wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hero has become something of a joke word these days. It's used to describe acts as mundane as getting out of bed in the morning and going to a salaried job. It's too bad, because it's nice to have a word to describe people of near godlike achievement. Chuck Yeager would be an example of what I consider a bona-fide modern hero. Alexander would be an example from antiquity.

What people consider heroic is a personal choice. I had no issue with someone saying what Apple did isn't heroic, what I was against was the specific reason . After all, to me Chuck Yeager is less of a hero than someone who helps out at a soup kitchen every weekend. One was doing their job (and a questionable person honestly) and the other is taking their own time to help others.

Thank you for illustrating my point.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#704

Post by philliphaydon »

prepend wrote: post #474
philliphaydon wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you will find most people with PCs replace them because they think they need to. My friend just replaced his 12yo asus laptop which he had to keep plugged in to work as the battery no longer held a charge. People with apple products tend to keep better care of the products than the latter too.

> most people with PCs replace them because they think they need to Why is this important. Are you saying that PC users are stupider than Mac users or something? The end result is that PC users go through more hardware than Macs. I consider myself pretty decent with computers and use both. My five year old MacBook Air runs fine, I’ve gone through two PC laptops (that were always bigger) and they don’t tend to survive…

> In the meantime, my personal experience of cost/year being cheaper with Mac vs PC stands for me.

My personal experience is my all my laptops last. People have problems with macs. People have problems with PCs. Doesn’t mean any are better than the other. But people with pc laptops will more often update their laptop for next to no gain over what they already had.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#705

Post by lathiat »

conradev wrote: post #674
ASalazarMX wrote: post #573

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm generally skeptical of Apple's pro-privacy messaging That's a very healthy attitude towards Apple's claims. They developed all these APIs that allow app makers to spy on their users, and then blame the app makers for spying. For example, why does any app need to know which other apps I have installed, and how long I use them? This permission should very sparingly pass the review process, and only for apps in sp…

I completely agree that it is a healthy attitude to have, and all of Apple's claims should be independently investigated. But I also agree that you should check facts or provide citations before spreading FUD: - There was never any API for a third party app on iOS to get the time spent in another app. The only workaround I saw to this was an app that asked you to screenshot your app usage screen, and it was able to p…

Good summary. And it’s common for apps that might not otherwise have a URL handler to have one for things like authentication callbacks from login with Facebook, emails from the app, etc.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#706

Post by zepto »

jb775 wrote: post #698
zepto wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The don’t collect this data. How could they monetize it?

iPhone users must login to use the phone. Those users need to provide valid identification info considering the phone is linked to their phone service account. Combine that with apple defining every single action the phone takes, they could easily flip a switch to start collecting "anonymized" data. Or they could simply update the data-sharing default to "Yes" and 75%+ would never disable it.

I said.

> The don’t collect this data. How could they monetize it?

Your answer is essentially -

“in principle they could build tracking into all their software”

You seem to be suggesting that their plan is to fein interest in privacy to undermine all the tracking companies first, and then reverse their stance and become a super-intrusive tracking company.

That seems very far fetched and weirdly conspiracy like.

Also obviously not true, given that they have been lobbying for privacy legislation.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#707

Post by zepto »

throw_away892 wrote: post #685
beowulfey wrote: post #681

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary—I’m not sure if you’ve ever watched Mad Men, but there are some pretty good examples of ads in there that didn’t use tracking at all. Calling tracking a cardinal rule of ads is like calling HTML a cardinal rule of communication. Sure it might be ubiquitous now, but if HTML were to suddenly disappear I guarantee communication between humans won’t stop — it would adapt. Tracking isn’t a foundation, it i…

I enjoyed Mad Men. But comparing web advertising today to the 70-80s is disingenuous. Fact of the matter is, advertising today / web marketing relies on user tracking. I'm yet to see anyone debunk this.

> advertising today / web marketing relies on user tracking.

It’s ‘disingenuous’ to claim that as some cardinal rule.

It’s not - it just happens to be the most popular business fad of the 2010s.

What works in business changes over time. That is a cardinal rule.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#708

Post by zepto »

throw_away892 wrote: post #686
zepto wrote: post #684

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones That isn’t evidence of Apple tracking anything. IDFA is used by Facebook and ad-tech companies. Apple are switching IDFA to be Opt-In rather than opt out. That’s what Facebook is complaining about.

> IDFA The mechanism for tracking users is already present. What more proof do you need? Even if you manage to toggle 3rd parties out of your phone. You cannot toggle the Apple out of it.

> The mechanism for tracking users is already present. What more proof do you need?

Evidence that Apple uses it.

The mechanism relies on libraries which send user behavior from other app to Facebook. These are correlated by the ID.

The identifier is not the mechanism. The mechanism is Facebook’s library.

Apple has no such mechanism.

> You cannot toggle the Apple out of it

False.

There is a toggle for the entire feature.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#709

Post by zepto »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #670
zepto wrote: post #654

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nothing like that. Vista popped up inscrutable boxes for all kinds of actions, with no explanation. This is a small number of permissions, each explained clearly. If Microsoft had done it this way, nobody would have laughed.

IDK MacOS blocks saving exports from Sequel Ace every single time I try. Have to do a file dialog dance each time or it silently fails. Guess devs just have to stay on top of the changing API requirements.

> Guess devs just have to stay on top of the changing API requirements.

Yes.

Re: Facebook is pushing back on Apple’s new iPhone privacy rules

#710

Post by zepto »

afiori wrote: post #700
zepto wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really don’t sell it. You certainly say they exploit it on behalf of their customers, but we need to maintain the distinction between this, and the companies that actually do sell the data they collect, because once sold, you can never trace who is using the data, whereas with Facebook and Google’s model, you can. It’s also worth pointing out that it’s not in Facebook’s interest to sell the data. If they did, th…

i agree that there is a difference but the Cambridge Analytica scandal told a different story regarding how much your data is safe within Facebook

Very true.

Facebook has definitely undermined trust on what data it shares.

However that is not it’s normal model.

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