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Firefox 86.0

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Re: Firefox 86.0

#151

Post by lights0123 »

folknor wrote: post #143
frosted-flakes wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The old Print Preview actually allowed you to inspect the page with the Developer Tools. Which was great for debugging print-specific CSS. I don't think that's possible with the new Print Preview, but the new one is better in every other way.

Should be possible using the Browser Toolbox to inspect the entire interface? I just checked and the HTML is definitely in the inspector at least, but I'm not sure what your requirements are.

What do you mean by "Browser Toolbox"? Firefox doesn't have Chrome's @media (print) emulation.

Re: Firefox 86.0

#152

Post by JadeNB »

woodrowbarlow wrote: post #148
JadeNB wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now you don't just have to anticipate having options removed; that's the explicit development plan. (Quote is about a different preference, but I think it makes the style of development clear.) > We intend to add a keyboard shortcut for this[1]. In the meantime you can revert to the old printing interface by setting the `print.tab_modal.enabled` preference to `false` via the page `about:config`. In a few releases tim…

they plan to remove a hidden about:config preference for the system print dialog and replace it with a _dedicated keyboard shortcut_. if you think that's evidence that they want to take away your control, i beg to differ.

No, to be honest, I misread and thought that the final sentence meant that they were taking all configurability, both preference and keyboard shortcut, away.

Re: Firefox 86.0

#153

Post by JadeNB »

jwatt wrote: post #149
JadeNB wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is Firefox, with its devotion to hearing the user's voice, always in such a hurry to remove toggles that express user preferences?

In the general case where that's true I expect it mostly comes down to trying to balance features against available resources and the amount/complexity of the code that needs to be written/maintained. As noted elsewhere in this thread, there were a bunch of layoffs at Mozilla the last year, but even without that it's sometimes necessary to make tough, pragmatic decisions. In the case of the new print preview/workflow…

Thank you for the reply, which you must get tired of giving but which you nonetheless gave politely.

I understand that the needs of any one user, such as me, with a particular idiosyncratic set of needs and preferences are at odds with those of the body of users as a whole, who need an appropriate balance between customiseability and useability, together with, of course, deliverability—it's no good having a product custom-tailored to fit every possible combination of needs if the developers collapse under the maintenance weight.

I didn't really mean what I said as anything other than a cri de cœur: it sometimes seems that Firefox rode to its current position on the wave of the love and passion of power users, a group of which I am on the periphery, but now cares more about its numerically larger but less devoted casual user base. This is probably the right decision, but it's still frustrating as one of those long-time users (from back in the Phoenix days!).

Re: Firefox 86.0

#154

Post by BuckRogers »

There's a lot of reasons why Firefox is still the best browser. I never did move to Chrome all these years, and Edge is incredibly impressive on Windows.

I'll detail my opinion on the path forward for Mozilla and Firefox in particular.

Surprisingly it's been Firefox on iOS that's the biggest pull to keep me on FF overall. I think that's the real way forward for them. There's just too many Google nags to switch to Chrome on the desktop. This is limited on mobile, and putting all resources into mobile features is paramount. Then desktop version usage increases due to sync features.

I'm a Windows and iOS user, and on the desktop, zippiness is feature #1. I think they should move to Chromium, as unpopular as that is. It'll save on maintenance and an un-Googled Chromium like Edge is a very good thing. Leave FF exactly as it is, all features intact with Chromium underpinnings, borrow a few features from Vivaldi (horizontal tab support), and you easily have the best browser on the market.

On iOS, it needs support for the URL bar to move to the bottom as on Android. It needs uBlock Origin integrated by default, to borrow from iOS Edge having adblock. Improving dark mode is key. I just can't get it to work properly with DuckDuckGo's homepage. Images are sometimes reversed. I've had to turn it off to get pages to display a their native black background. I'd like to see it work out of the box with Facebook's messenger feature, it tries to redirect to the app, while in Safari this can be set to open in desktop mode and just works. Otherwise, general stability improvements and performance. It used to be very unstable, but its come a long way now. It's my favorite mobile browser.

Would those changes be enough? I'm not sure, but I do know iOS and Android browser support is the only possible way forward other than services like their VPN.

I'm the type of user though that doesn't mind the ads in the URL bar, pretty small ask on Mozilla's part. I also leave telemetry enabled because I want my usage scenario to be in Mozilla's data. As you can guess, I'm not the typical user that thinks Blink vs Gecko is somehow a mighty crusade to save the web. Even if it were where the real battle is, Mozilla is not the entity that's properly armed to take up that fight. Apple or Microsoft would be.

I have other ideas on how to move Mozilla forward and make it a very big player in the tech space. The biggest problem confronting Mozilla today is probably Mozilla. If I had to guess. Trying to convey these ideas to leadership and get a path forward set in the bureaucracy is probably pretty tough.

Re: Firefox 86.0

#155

Post by dblohm7 »

megous wrote: post #8

I wonder if the web engine development pretty much stopped, or developer notes are just less detailed over the last year or so. Those are a shadow of the former self, certainly.

Most of the Gecko group was left intact.

Re: Firefox 86.0

#156

Post by joveian »

blfr wrote: post #17

> Firefox now supports simultaneously watching multiple videos in Picture-in-Picture. Is Adderall the new Aspirin? Or is there some WFH use here that I'm missing.

I don't get it either, personally, but I remember reading around high school (90s) a book called "Boost your Brainpower" or something like that. They mostly recommended lots of visualization (they said the trick is to say out loud what you are seeing to improve) but also had a suggestion to watch multiple televisions at the same time, suggesting it would be helpful in some way or another that I have long since forgotten. I never tried any of those, but hopefully in a decade we'll be reading about "the browser feature that boosts your brainpower" and not "the browser feature that made the amphetamine crisis even worse".

Re: Firefox 86.0

#157

Post by jamienicol »

swebs wrote: post #72
afavour wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you're angry at the Mozilla CEO for posting about political topics rather than the browser and product vision? And yet here you are, in a thread about the Mozilla browser, posting about political topics. Maybe take your own advice?

I don't know why you're being so hostile. It was in interesting revelation to me. And pretty surprising too since the last CEO was kicked out for far less.

Like so often on HN when this comes up, you fail to even get the basic facts right. Such as which CEO was "kicked out". And it certainly wasn't for far less

Re: Firefox 86.0

#158

Post by jwatt »

JadeNB wrote: post #153
jwatt wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the general case where that's true I expect it mostly comes down to trying to balance features against available resources and the amount/complexity of the code that needs to be written/maintained. As noted elsewhere in this thread, there were a bunch of layoffs at Mozilla the last year, but even without that it's sometimes necessary to make tough, pragmatic decisions. In the case of the new print preview/workflow…

Thank you for the reply, which you must get tired of giving but which you nonetheless gave politely. I understand that the needs of any one user, such as me, with a particular idiosyncratic set of needs and preferences are at odds with those of the body of users as a whole, who need an appropriate balance between customiseability and useability, together with, of course, deliverability—it's no good having a product c…

No problem, and as a Mozilla user/contributor since the early Mozilla Suite days I sympathize with your cri de cœur. Power users had and will always have an outsized influence on Mozilla's market share and thus relevance and ability to fulfill its mission. At the same time performance, polish and usability need to keep up with the competition to keep the less technical majority. It's a tough balancing act when resource constrained.

Re: Firefox 86.0

#159

Post by zamadatix »

gardaani wrote: post #112
GolDDranks wrote: post #56

One more release to avif!

Would it make sense to skip AVIF and add JPEG XL instead or wait for WebP2? JPEG XL and WebP2 have better image features, such as progressive loading.

The machinery needed to add AVIF is small since browsers/sites/devices are already shipping AV1 more and more and will continue to do so regardless. Also AVIF does better at extremely low file sizes.

JPEG XL and/or WebP2 are looking to be great but there is not reason to wait for perfect to come along before adding another format to the browsers - it's not like they are running out of room for more image decoders :).

Re: Firefox 86.0

#160

Post by digianarchist »

clairity wrote: post #70
megous wrote: post #8

I wonder if the web engine development pretty much stopped, or developer notes are just less detailed over the last year or so. Those are a shadow of the former self, certainly.

it’s particularly aggravating that form fields have been largely stagnant over the past 20 years. so much repetitive development happens around forms (validations or date/time pickers, for instance) and yet very little effort goes into improving them.

Microsoft are actually doing good in this space.

https://blogs.windows.com/msedgedev/2019/10/15/form-controls...

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