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Being on Call

tyler.kim

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Re: Being on Call

#81

Post by llampx »

gambiting wrote: post #73
8fingerlouie wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> my contract allows for unpaid overtime Unless i was in serious financial trouble, or in a learning situation, i would never accept a contract that "allows for unpaid overtime". Most of the companies i know don't allow for "paid free time", so why should i give away my time for free to increase profits for the company ? The exception to this is of course "job salary", but i never accept those either unless i have a…

>>Unless i was in serious financial trouble, or in a learning situation, i would never accept a contract that "allows for unpaid overtime". At least in the UK the law specifically forbids working more than 48 hours a week, so it's pretty common to see contracts where you opt out of this regulation. Not because the company even intends to make you work overtime, but because if you happened to work more, even entirely…

It's funny. A regulation, that you can opt out of, with an adhesion contract.

Re: Being on Call

#82

Post by llampx »

rorykoehler wrote: post #53
gambiting wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes wonder where the hell most HNers work where 9am is not considered late start. At a warehouse I worked at the shift was 6am to 2pm. And it was great that way as you avoided most of the summer heat. The software company where I work now, 8am is standard, that way you're nicely done at 4pm and have the entire evening to yourself. My wife is also a programmer and usually starts at 7:30am because that's their…

In Berlin the normal start time is 10am

Unless you are at a German non-startup company. Then you have people rolling in at 6-7am even in the winter.

Re: Being on Call

#83

Post by taylodl »

antihero wrote: post #36
8fingerlouie wrote: post #35

We have our "ops" guys that monitors the environments, and a list of people for each system that is more or less always on call. Each service/job that is being monitored has a procedure/description for how to respond to failures, and if nothing else works, the people on the list gets a call. You're not required to take the call, but you get a fairly large sum of money if you do, meaning people usually take the call d…

In what hellish sort of company is 9AM "late"?

There are 10 kinds of developers in the world...

Those who like to start their day mid morning and those who like to start their day early morning. To accommodate everyone a lot of companies use a standard "core time" of 10-2 where everyone needs to be in the office.

Re: Being on Call

#84

Post by sdevonoes »

pc86 wrote: post #79
sdevonoes wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No better fix for those low stakes than being on call. I prefer a company with a strong tech culture: code review, thinkg long-term (marathons instead of sprints) and design systems with architecture-first on mind (instead of feature-first), automated testing, QA people, don't deploy on Fridays...

If you've got testing, code reviews, QA, and CI/CD, Friday deployments should be totally fine.

The point is "Friday deployments" are not needed (unless we are talking about hotfixes). What's the use case? Can't it wait until Monday? Why are all in such a rush?

Re: Being on Call

#85

Post by dd_roger »

antihero wrote: post #36
8fingerlouie wrote: post #35

We have our "ops" guys that monitors the environments, and a list of people for each system that is more or less always on call. Each service/job that is being monitored has a procedure/description for how to respond to failures, and if nothing else works, the people on the list gets a call. You're not required to take the call, but you get a fairly large sum of money if you do, meaning people usually take the call d…

In what hellish sort of company is 9AM "late"?

There's no company policy mandating me to start that early yet I start between 7am and 7:30am, by 8am the office is mostly full.

The earlier you start the more daylight left to enjoy at the end of the day. 9am really sounds awfully late. People who start at 9 don't enjoy their morning any more than I do. They just wake up later. And it forces them to stay longer in the evening while I'm out taking advantage of the extra day light to do outdoor activities.

Re: Being on Call

#86

Post by znpy »

dd_roger wrote: post #85
antihero wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what hellish sort of company is 9AM "late"?

There's no company policy mandating me to start that early yet I start between 7am and 7:30am, by 8am the office is mostly full. The earlier you start the more daylight left to enjoy at the end of the day. 9am really sounds awfully late. People who start at 9 don't enjoy their morning any more than I do. They just wake up later. And it forces them to stay longer in the evening while I'm out taking advantage of the ex…

Indeed.

I've seen some companies that clock the hours you're "in the building" and allow coming up early to leave early.

What happens in practice is that some people will come in early, start working early, and leave early. Some other people will check-in early, enjoy the office-provided amenities in the empty office, and actually start working when the rest of the team gets in the office.

Some smarter company just ask you to check-in before, say, 10 am and don't care when you leave (either early or late -- and don't require you to check-out explicitly by passing the badge) -- it's up to you and your boss/manager: as long as you meet the deadline, leave as soon or as late as you see fit.

Re: Being on Call

#87

Post by znpy »

gambiting wrote: post #58
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I worked in Austria and Germany, most employees started between 6:00 and 8:00 AM at the latest. Although there was nothing against coming in after 9:00 AM due to flex-time, it would guarantee you'd miss all the morning coffee chit-chat with internal company gossip and by the time you'd leave work and head to the city, the shops would already be close to closing.

Yeah that's the other thing. A lot of shops and agencies close at 5pm, so if your come in to work at 10am and work until 6pm? Everything is closed once you leave, good luck getting anything done after work.

If you come in at work at 10am you might have as well done that trip to the shop/agency before coming to work.

Re: Being on Call

#88

Post by sofixa »

sdevonoes wrote: post #75
8fingerlouie wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think most of Europe has a 37 hour/week work schedule, and because "we're better" we have 36 hour/week. At least some of mainland Europe: Germany, France, Scandinavia, and IIRC the UK.

Last gig I had in Germany: it was 40h/week. I never seen a 36h/week schedule in France either... (I'm talking about standard software engineer positions).

In France base is 35h/week, 37/39 are frequent with the extra 2-4h hours then available 1:1 as extra vacation time ( RTT, you get hours on top of 35 worked over the year / 7 ( standard work day) of them over the year).

I'm currently on 35, might move to 37 ( majority at my company).

Re: Being on Call

#90

Post by watwut »

bayindirh wrote: post #80
watwut wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, I contend you find remarkable soldiers even in terrible groups, and that they (individuals) should not be judged on their group but on their own qualities of service. So, we should praise ISIS fighters? I am intentionally picking up example of extreme, but very real organization. Same question can be asked about SS members. They knew what they joined. Does them doing good job in that organization is really prai…

> So, we should praise ISIS fighters? You're distorting it. I was trying to point out that, they have to deform themselves to somewhat non-human states. It's not valid only for servicemen. Firefighters are same. Police are same. Long haul truckers, cargo ship crew are same. I think everybody making sacrifices for doing what they find worthy are eligible for some respect. They accept to deform themselves to do somethi…

I am not distorting. I am using unambiguous example of what I have in mind.

> soldiers even in terrible groups, and that they (individuals) should not be judged on their group but on their own qualities of service.

Unless you was forced into that group, which was not case of SS but in some cases could be ISIS, you know what you were joining.

I don't think sacrifice itself is worth respect, if the goal of that sacrifice is destructive and wrong. If you sacrifice yourself in service of group that does genocide or tortures to get power and so on, you did genocide and tortured people so that your group have power. The ideology of "sacrifice is worth respect no matter what" empowers exactly these groups first. Believing this makes people more likely to join these.

The victims, especially those who stood against that group should be celebrated. Those who said "no" deserve respect. Those who were avoiding still deserve more respect.

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