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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#731

Post by msla »

imwillofficial wrote: post #711
msla wrote: post #661

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand that a WiFi LAN is one.

Every port on a switch is one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collision_domain

> By connecting each device directly to a port on the switch, either each port on a switch becomes its own collision domain (in the case of half-duplex links), or the possibility of collisions is eliminated entirely in the case of full-duplex links. For Gigabit Ethernet and faster, no hubs or repeaters exist and all devices require full-duplex links.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#732

Post by eightails »

knz_ wrote: post #708

As cool as this is, it's a DOA product with no real market outside super savvy consumers. Uninformed consumers already buy the cheapest laptops they can find on Amazon or in the store. If repairability is super important to someone, what incentive is there to buy this over a used thinkpad? You can get skylake thinkpads for less than $200 on ebay - replacement batteries and displays cost less than $100.

I really hope you're wrong and this device achieves success, but you may well be right honestly.

I suspect they'll have to charge premium prices, but that might be justifiable even considering the availability of cheap Thinkpads.

As good as $200 Thinkpads are, they are old devices, with dim, low res screens, old processors, poor battery life, relatively thick and heavy chassis, old ports, old wifi/bluetooth etc. Again, perfectly functional for many people, but I think there are legitimate reasons to want a newer device.

Maybe there's enough of a niche market there, who knows.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#733

Post by jonnycomputer »

Eric_WVGG wrote: post #71
sho_hn wrote: post #60

I don't see any information on the licensing of the adapter card / inter-module interfaces. Can others build a Framework laptop without approval? Can others build cards without approval? Will it be a platform? Tell me how this isn't a Nespresso machine for silicon pods. :-) Edit: To be clear, even a "we have a generic base laptop and you can pick your I/O" concept is potentially a nice value prop, but it'd be good if…

They're just USB-C dongles that snap into the chassis.. You can see better shots here: https://frame.work This is an unpopular opinion, but I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. This solution is sort of clever but it sacrifices a ton of internal space that could have been spent on a bigger battery. USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. (the Nespresso analogy is ridiculous, a la…

Yeah. Who needs a swiss army knife anyway. Just carry two knives, a can opener, a corkscrew, a nail filer, a pair of scissors, a saw, a screw driver, fish scaler, magnifying lens and toothpick.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#734

Post by krrrh »

GordonS wrote: post #445
wishinghand wrote: post #352

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange to see a complaint about the Apple trackpad, because whenever I use a non-Apple laptop, I despair at the trackpad. The current design is too large, but the pre-USB-C models had a perfect size and UX. I haven't ever experienced an equal.

The Apple trackpad seems to be really polarising - I often this see on HN: fans surprised anyone would dislike it, and opponents surprised anyone would like it! Personally, I'm in the latter camp. I have a 13" MBP, and find the buttons need way too much pressure, even with the sensitivity ramped up. There's also something I can't quantify... there's a feeling of it being laggy, and somehow "unpleasant" to drag my fin…

“Buttons”

Not sure if we’re talking about the same thing with that plural, but the first thing I change on a new Mac is enabling tap to click. It works great and you can avoid the annoyance of the audible click.

The second thing is to enable three finger drag, which the moves into Accessibility settings about 5 years ago.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#735

Post by jonnycomputer »

sleepybrett wrote: post #217
lovelyviking wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I think this proves that Apple was right to dump legacy ports. How it proves it? Those guys do not drop ports, they just make them modular. All the "saved space" in Apple laptops become amazingly wasted space in your bag with tons of adapters and wires. I still dream to meet the one who made such 'wise' decision to tell him what I think about it personally! >USB-C, and the correct cables, are all anyone needs. I am…

I'm down to exactly one adapter in my bag. One usb-c male to usb-a female stubby little guy. If I'm heading to someplace where I think I might need more than 1 usb-a port or a situation where I might need a bit of a usb hub I just pack this little 'dock dongle' that's about three inches long and an inch wide that has three usb-a ports (2x3.0 1x2.0), an hdmi port, a sd and tf card slot, an ethernet port, an audio jack…

All of this thread comes down to those who want their laptops to be Swiss Army knifes ready for any situation, and those who don't.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#736

Post by cwxm »

nrp wrote: post #410
jedimastert wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This might be a silly question, but it looks like the adapters are just usb-c/thunderbolt devices with a nice case. Is this the case? I'm not knocking it if it is, I personally think it'd be pretty clever, but it means being able to use them in other places (like pretending the storage expansion thing is just a usb-c flash-drive) and it would have interesting implications for making them.

That's correct. That is one of the intended use cases for our Storage Expansion Cards. You can use it on your Framework Laptop, pop it out, plug it into an other machine that supports USB-C, and transfer files at high speed.

Not sure if that was your intention, but I would pay Apple level prices for this.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#738

Post by garmaine »

hamburglar wrote: post #644
gburdell3 wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has to be software. I have a ThinkPad that I recently installed macOS on (not advocating hackintosh, but it's a fun project nonetheless) and the trackpad feels every bit as good as a real Mac. Smooth scrolling, smooth gesture recognition, everything just feels good. The hardware is capable of processing the gestures, but the non-Apple software just does a terrible job of making it feel good to use.

It’s definitely not just software. If you connect an Apple Magic Trackpad to a Linux machine running X, it works way, way better than the garbage that’s built into most PC laptops. Also note that Lenovo itself has a huge variation in trackpad quality. My relatively new thinkpad (thinkpad-branded but I think the model number was yoga 360) from work has a trackpad that is just barely usable. My personal yoga c740 has a…

This is true, although it is probably because of the software being built into the trackpad itself.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#739

Post by Stevvo »

ibraheemdev wrote: post #737

Just curious, why Intel over AMD? AMD has been dominating the CPU market lately in price for performance.

AMD's competitive mobile chips are bit different; higher TDP, higher core counts. Not ideal for a thin and light machine.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#740

Post by reasonabl_human »

nrp wrote: post #619
aidenn0 wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But only if you order the kit, not if you get it preassembled I believe.

This is correct. There’s nothing technical preventing us from offering a pre-built bring your own OS system, but we figured there’s high overlap between that audience and those who want to assemble a kit themselves. This reduces the amount of pre-built inventory we need to hold.

I get the business case of universal pre-built inventory, but offering a Linux version out of the box signals that all hardware is compatible and fully functional... supported at a first-party level.

More and more developers in big tech companies using Linux just expect it to work and aren’t interested in monkeying around with drivers and configs.. not to say they can’t, but why increase friction for your dev setup?

This is one of the reasons why the XPS 13 Developer edition exists. Guaranteed first party support for Linux.. you know the next kernel or major revision won’t Bork your setup... you can just focus on working within the env.

Offering a preinstalled Linux variant captures the market referenced above, and signals to tinkerers that this is a good platform to build on since all hardware is supported without jenky workarounds.

Alternatively, if you can’t make offering dedicated Linux installs an economically feasible thing, then perhaps offer a mirror or set of instructions to set up latest LTS builds of various Linux flavors, to indicate full compatibility? Because that is the real selling point. Knowing all of your hardware is supported as a first party product. That’s one of the biggest reasons why I chose an XPS this time around, and considered a System76 machine as well.

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