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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#681

Post by Waterluvian »

nrp wrote: post #183
samizdis wrote: post #103

Ars Technica has a sceptical but optimistic/hopeful take on it: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/framework-startup-de... Edit to add quote from Ars article: Framework is promising an awful lot in its very first product—"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" is a pretty tall order to live up to. We very much want to believe, but it's going to take a full Ars Technica teardown before we're c…

"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" was not actually a direct quote from us, but it's nice that the folks at Ars think of our design that way!

I really really really want this to be a real thing.

Good luck!!!

Re: The Framework Laptop

#682

Post by Waterluvian »

Judgmentality wrote: post #648
AceJohnny2 wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks to Apple, there's probably a solid "aluminium case" manufacturing pipeline that Framework might be able to leverage. That's a wild guess though, I can imagine Apple keeping that tightly under their thumbs. Extra colors add cost. You have to plan for which colors might be popular, and which won't, in which case you'd have to sell at a discount to get rid of inventory. I'd be surprised if Framework offered that…

> Thanks to Apple, there's probably a solid "aluminium case" manufacturing pipeline that Framework might be able to leverage. Apple literally has buildings filled with thousands of CNC machines milling aluminum laptop cases. Apple does not manufacture things the same way as the rest of the industry, as they have the money and the scale to do whatever the fuck they want. https://beneinstein.medium.com/no-you-cant-manu…

And it shows. I've never had an aluminum laptop feel like a macbook chassis. There's just something about the thickness? Rigidity?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#683

Post by bigiain »

webmobdev wrote: post #459
tomtheelder wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the SD card example encapsulates the issue perfectly. I'm pretty sure that in 2021 that is an _extreme_ niche use case. I feel like only extremely serious photographers and perhaps a particular slice of musicians use them. It makes absolutely no sense for them to have that built into the laptop. 99% of people who own Macbooks or whatever don't own an SD card dongle because they don't need it. However, and ext…

> It makes absolutely no sense for them to have that built into the laptop. 99% of people who own Macbooks or whatever don't own an SD card dongle because they don't need it. That's the issue - you are speaking only from an Apple user perspective. Android (and other non-apple) phones allow us to extend our storage with sd cards, and they are mostly used to store and transfer photos and videos.

> Android (and other non-apple) phones allow us to extend our storage with sd cards

/me looks glumly at my Apple-ized Samsung Galaxy S6Edge, with no SD card or removable battery. (Both of which would make the S6/GearVR combo significantly more useful...)

Re: The Framework Laptop

#684

Post by arsome »

zerocrates wrote: post #427
throwaway894345 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).

I feel like the XPS 13 trackpad is fine, what's your beef with it?

Yeah, I'm not sure about any of this, I grew up with PC trackpads, used them on Linux all the time and other than a few annoyances with accidentally tripping the trackpad when typing, never had a problem with them. The Macbook actually took quite a bit of time to get used to and many settings had to be adjusted (looking at you backwards scrolling).

In fact, I think I like the trackpad on my cheap Logitech K400 just as much as the Macbook, I'd be hard pressed to point to a significant problem with either.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#685

Post by layer8 »

wishinghand wrote: post #653
layer8 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those keys already have their own layers in a lot of software. Having to press yet another additional modifier key destroys usability and muscle memory.

> Having to press yet another additional modifier key destroys usability and muscle memory I'm far more comfortable moving my fingers and thumbs as little as possible rather than having to stretch far and wide for those extra function keys.

For me it’s the opposite: I get RSI from having to stretch my hands to press 2-3 modifiers simultaneously, whereas moving my hands a bit is no problem.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#686

Post by BugsJustFindMe »

boogies wrote: post #676
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #620

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This comment was made via Pentadactyl Enlighten us all. What exactly did you press and what mental decision and awareness process was required to do it starting from the front page? > [count]gi "[count]" sounds like one would need to know how many like things on the page precede the thing you're trying to get to. Thanks but no thanks. 150! Oops, 100! Oops, 130!

f20 selects this discussion (the 20th link), but I used f4 to select threads (the 4th link); j,D, and scroll down by a line, half-screen/page and full-screen/page respectively; fr4 selects the correct reply (the fourth link whose text begins with r); gi goes to the first input field and enters insert mode. In insert mode I may use the simple mixture of emacs/readline and CUA bindings — like ^w to wipe the last word,…

Now I can't tell if this thread is meant to be satire.

> f20 selects this discussion (the 20th link) but I used f4 to select threads (the 4th link)

So first you have to visually recognize every link in between the beginning and what you want to choose and then you have to count them all? I hope you don't miscount!

> j,D, and scroll down by a line, half-screen/page and full-screen/page respectively

How many lines, half-pages, or pages is it from the top to here? Just curious.

> fr4 selects the correct reply (the fourth link whose text begins with r);

So first you have to decide that "starts with r" is a good heuristic for getting where you want to go and then you have to find all of the links that start with r and count them?

> gi goes to the first input field and enters insert mode

But if it's not the first input field, then you have to count them or cycle through them?

> Ideally though, I should have a dedicated newsreader that understands what posts, comments, etc. are

So now you want a special bespoke reader for every website?

Oh yes this all sounds so much easier than just pointing at the thing you want! Thank you for clarifying.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#687

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

GordonS wrote: post #477
freeone3000 wrote: post #289

The port design is intriguing. My concern is your main competition, at least from me, is against Lenovo. Their thinkpads don't offer the modularity of IO ports, but instead simply offer "one of everything", with user-replacable SSD, HDD, and RAM modules, which is enough for most users. Swappable screens might be enough of a selling point, but, I'm holding out for the actual final specs. It doesn't look like it can fi…

Do any of the modern Thinkpads offer user-replaceable parts? Any time I see Thinkpads recommend on HN, it's for older, 2nd hand laptops. Also, do any of such Thinkpads approach the lightness, thinness and aesthetic of this laptop? Last time I looked at new Thinkpads, I seem to recall they were pretty chunky, with only the Ideapads being thin, light and nice to look at (it was a while ago, so I might have that wrong t…

Keyboard, SSD, one of two RAM sticks, WiFi card, and honestly basically everything else except one RAM and the CPU/GPU look replaceable on the T14 and P14s, with a publicly available manual to guide you: https://download.lenovo.com/pccbbs/mobiles_pdf/t14_gen1_p14s...

Comes with 2x USB-C, 2x USB-A, HDMI, Ethernet, 3.5mm headset jack, MicroSD.

That said, the Lenovo online shop is a customer service disaster. Don't buy there. Misadvertised the smart card reader as a SD/MMC/... card reader, defrauds customers by advertising a "best price" policy that they then refuse to honor, 3 months to shipping with repeated delays, they play stupid games with their pricing (e.g. they jack up the price during week days by about 30% to milk business customers), zero flexibility (e.g. if the shipment is delayed because they're missing the removable RAM, they can't change the order to ship you a unit without the RAM, your only option would be to cancel and go to the end of the queue).

Also, poor hardware support for the GPU and possibly Bluetooth under Ubuntu 20.04 LTS.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#688

Post by vagrantJin »

nkrisc wrote: post #474
throwaway894345 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).

For whatever reason, I've never used a laptop that wasn't a MacBook that has had a trackpad anywhere as amazing as what Apple has done. I don't know if the problem is hardware, software, or both, but as a consumer I don't care. I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better. That's my personal requirement. On a personal laptop I always use the trackpad so I want it to be…

> I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better

Funny that

Commenting on a thread about a non-apple laptop that you'll never buy a Non apple laptop.

That is true and unadultered fanboyism.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#689

Post by boogies »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #616
jessaustin wrote: post #608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Show me a better multi-purpose input device that I can use to rotate objects on a screen. The obvious answer to the challenge is a touch screen .

I actually buy this conclusion for this use case, but in fairness the debate was "keyboard vs touchpad". So touchscreen > touchpad > keyboard for rotating objects. But for other things, having to reach up to the screen (e.g., scrolling), is worse than touchpad. With a trackpad, I only have to articulate my wrist while my arm remains resting on the surface; with a touch screen, I have to lift my whole arm and articula…

> the debate was "keyboard vs touchpad".

I didn’t mean for it to be that exclusively. I tried to say that keyboards are the best text input device, but gaming mice and controllers are the best gaming input device, graphics tablets are the best graphics input device, and video editing input devices like the ones I linked in my original comment are probably best for video editing (while trackpads are at best decent scrolling/browsing devices, but IMHO I personally prefer keyboard scrolling like in the terminal pager less, the PDF and other document viewer Zathura, and vi-inspired browsers/browser plugins like luakit, qutebrowser, and Pentadactyl).

Re: The Framework Laptop

#690

Post by spion »

2256x1504 resolution

Finally, someone that knows about the sweet spot between fuzzy looking FHD and inevitably slow 4K. I'd buy this laptop just for that bit of (nowadays rare) common-sense thinking.

Webcam is just icing on the cake.

Hope the keyboard is more similar to a Thinkpad rather than a Macbook. Even if not, I'm sure that will become an option soon if the project is a success

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