Shipping Summer 2021
Does it actually exist?
The Framework Laptop
561–570 of 1001 posts
Re: The Framework Laptop
#562Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah I’m with you that even in the categories I mentioned there are problems. System76 comes up a lot, but to be blunt they seem awful. Bad resolution displays, generally terrible build, bezels, etc. I think there’s a market for a really good non Mac laptop with Mac quality hardware design.
My point was, those high end machines that compete with mac laptops already exist. XPS, HP Spectre, Surface laptop, higher end ThinkPads and ZenBooks, Razer Blade Stealth and Pro... As for S76 systems, you can't really compare a $2000+ Macbook with a $1000 System76/Clevo ODM with the same criteria. They're just perfectly fine machines for what they cost.
> "They're just perfectly fine machines for what they cost."
Sure, but I don't care about the 'crap' segment of laptops. I want more options at the Macbook price point. People often talk about System76 as if they are Mac competitors too, so I don't entirely buy your point.
> "High end machines that compete with mac laptops already exist"
And they mostly suck. There isn't a good option that's a clear stand out Macbook competitor. There is no Windows/Linux hardware that's easy to point at and say this is clearly the one to get. All the competitors are a mixture of bad tradeoffs. Why?
I would think Microsoft would want to make a Surface laptop that's competitive in this space (that targets developers), but they haven't really.
Re: The Framework Laptop
#563Earlier quoted context omitted.
Key travel isn't everything. The layout is important as well. This is the best layout humanity ever invented: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/c/0/csm_... Classic arrow keys, separate volume buttons, separate back/forward/pageup/pagedown, F1-F12 as the primary functions, …
haha fn on extreme left. are you kidding?
Fn position is obviously configurable. I have ctrl/fn swapped, but plenty of people don't, and that's fine. (And then plently of people have ctrl on capslock, which is also fine. I couldn't get used to it.)
Re: The Framework Laptop
#564Remember that one time when someone tried to do this with mobile phones and then Google bought it and killed it?
https://www.onearmy.earth//project/phonebloks
I really hope this is actually successful.
I'd love a version with a larger screen as well.
Re: The Framework Laptop
#565Earlier quoted context omitted.
I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).
For whatever reason, I've never used a laptop that wasn't a MacBook that has had a trackpad anywhere as amazing as what Apple has done. I don't know if the problem is hardware, software, or both, but as a consumer I don't care. I'll never buy a non-Apple laptop until I can find one that has a trackpad as good or better. That's my personal requirement. On a personal laptop I always use the trackpad so I want it to be…
I think it's got to be a little bit of both. My experience has been that the trackpad experience with Win10 on a MacBook is poor, and the trackpad experience on a hackintosh is also poor.
I realize a sibling poster had a different hackintosh experience. I think that maybe supports my suspicion. Good hardware and good software are both necessary, but not sufficient, conditions of a good overall experience.
Re: The Framework Laptop
#566Earlier quoted context omitted.
I hope this business of yours works out because a laptop that isn't a piece of junk with too much stuff I don't need inflating the price is something I've been wanting for a long time.
I've still never seen a PC with a sane touchpad. That's the first issue in a long tail of grievances with the PC laptop ecosystem. EDIT: This isn't a generic "pro-Mac" dig, I want a nice PC laptop because I like dabbling with Linux; however, even the high end trackpads are clunky, even with the pre-installed Windows (never mind the eternal sadness that is Linux trackpad configuration).
I'll be honest, I've used a laptop as a primary computing device my whole life - and I have no idea what a "sane touchpad" would even be. They really are so frequently bad that I can't imagine what a good one would be like. I mostly use PCs (often with Linux), but used a mac for work for while - and I can't really say I saw the appeal in that touchpad either. Besides issues that come from low-quality pads + linux drivers (ghost mouse movements as I type, stupid imprecision from weird acceleration setting) - I don't like the way that most touch pads feel cold and metallic, and how they always attract dust you can feel as you use.
My solution has always been to just keep a wireless mouse with rechargable AA's in my backpack. If I'm using my laptop on a couch at home, I have a wooden lap desk with ample mouse space to accommodate it.
Additionally, the thinkpad I have now has both an eraser mouse and touch screen + stylus (as well as a trackpad), so if I do have to leave my mouse at home, I at least have options. I like the eraser mouse because I don't have to move my fingers away from the keyboard - and even if it feels it takes slightly longer to move - it's more pleasant tactile experience for me.
Re: The Framework Laptop
#567Ars Technica has a sceptical but optimistic/hopeful take on it: https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/02/framework-startup-de... Edit to add quote from Ars article: Framework is promising an awful lot in its very first product—"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" is a pretty tall order to live up to. We very much want to believe, but it's going to take a full Ars Technica teardown before we're c…
"thin as an XPS 13, repairable as a custom-built gaming PC" was not actually a direct quote from us, but it's nice that the folks at Ars think of our design that way!
Will you consider designing the chassis to be coffee-spill resistant? (if it's not already)
Also, will you consider establishing an EU warehouse to reduce shipping and customs overhead?
Re: The Framework Laptop
#568Earlier quoted context omitted.
Use your thumbs. The track pad is right below the space bar. Or, it's close enough that with hovering hands you can move back and forth between keys without looking. It's much faster to navigate a code base that way, I think, than trying to jump in vim lines at a time. A smooth, continuous scroll at easily controllable, different speeds does wonders for keeping continuity of a file in mind.
> easily controllable, different speeds This is why I like having not just ^f/b full page, {}() paragraph and sentence, and of course j/k line scrolling but also ^u/d half-page scrolling so much that I mapped them it U and D in Zathura and Pentadactyl just for the centimeter of finger movement that saves.
The funny thing is (){} are much further from where your fingers are at home than the track pad is from your thumbs on space.
Re: The Framework Laptop
#569Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the SD card example encapsulates the issue perfectly. I'm pretty sure that in 2021 that is an _extreme_ niche use case. I feel like only extremely serious photographers and perhaps a particular slice of musicians use them. It makes absolutely no sense for them to have that built into the laptop. 99% of people who own Macbooks or whatever don't own an SD card dongle because they don't need it. However, and ext…
I use my notebook's SD card reader all the time. Cameras, ARM SBCs, 3D printers, random SD cards I find laying around... There's plenty of use cases for an SD card reader, I certainly use video out on my notebook much less.
> random SD cards I find laying around
Can we explore that a bit? Laying around your house? Or like on the ground at work?
I seem to remember some corporate espionage that relied on people looking at random SD cards they found on the ground...
Re: The Framework Laptop
#570Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue with this thread is that it seems like an argument, but different people just have different sensibilities. Get the machine that suits _you_. Unless you want to run Apple OS because then you're not given choice.
> Get the machine that suits _you_. Unless you want to run Apple OS because then you're not given choice. And that is exactly the point. I used to be a very happy customer of multiple Macbook Pros over almost a decade. Currently, I am still using my 2015 Macbook Pro 15" with maxed out specs when not in my home office. But all the later models went downhill for my needs. The new Macbook Air M1 is the first model that…
They are supposedly bringing back more ports...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.macrumors.com/guide/14-inch...