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The Framework Laptop

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Re: The Framework Laptop

#381

Post by com2kid »

Liskni_si wrote: post #332
nrp wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Keyboard and touchpad quality were high priorities for us. We built in 1.5mm key travel, which is unusually high for a <16mm thick laptop. The touchpad surface feels great and performs well. I hear you on the touchpad buttons though. That is something we've done a little exploration on. The touchpad is an end-user replaceable module, but we can't commit to a three button version materializing just yet.

Key travel isn't everything. The layout is important as well. This is the best layout humanity ever invented: https://www.notebookcheck.net/fileadmin/_processed_/c/0/csm_... Classic arrow keys, separate volume buttons, separate back/forward/pageup/pagedown, F1-F12 as the primary functions, …

See, I disagree, I use home/end/pageup/pagedown all the time, and having them separate in an awkward spot is annoying. I prefer having them overlaid on the arrow keys, with fn to access them. IMHO that is the one area laptop keyboards can superior to full size keyboards.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#382

Post by imwillofficial »

robotnikman wrote: post #262
ppezaris wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry who is using RJ45 ports on a laptop these days? Seems like that question was asked and answered years ago, and wifi has won.

At work when at my desk. If every device in the office were on Wifi, things would be a mess

USB-C Dock solved this problem for me.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#383

Post by 908B64B197 »

Brakenshire wrote: post #364
2020aj wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Librem was geared towards openness/security, this just has a focus on repairability. Can Framework not just use off the shelf parts that already have the proper firmware/drivers available for windows/linux and then encounter none of the same issues? Or is the issue the interfaces b/w the modules and mainboard?

I think the particular problem for devices based on ARM SoCs is they’re not on the mainline kernel, support for hardware and for upgrading software relies on a whole pile of hacks on top of an ancient kernel version, and that means that upgrading to a new Android version requires applying a pile of new hacks on top again, and can be very laborious to get a reasonable, stable result. So Fairphone used a chipset whose…

Is there a reason why there needs to be so much tweaks to get the kernel running on a modern SoC?

Any reason there couldn't be a "canonical" ARM64 standard for SoC?

Re: The Framework Laptop

#384

Post by imwillofficial »

msla wrote: post #213
ppezaris wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry who is using RJ45 ports on a laptop these days? Seems like that question was asked and answered years ago, and wifi has won.

> I'm sorry who is using RJ45 ports on a laptop these days? Everyone who understands collision domains. Everyone who understands bandwidth.

I don't think you understand collision domains.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#385

Post by google234123 »

ThinkBeat wrote: post #369

I really want to buy hardware that allows easy repair. That goes for laptops and cellphone in particular. Laptops used to allow easy replacement of battery, memory and hardrives at the very least. All that sacrificed in the name of making the devices "thinner" and the design more attractive. What bits me most is that a lot of younger friends I have, have no such expectations. Talk to them about a cellphone the answer…

I'm pretty sure Apple goes far more for the green agenda than the old PC makers ever did - even taking into account the tiny savings you get from the few people that upgraded or repaired their laptops in the past.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#386

Post by ploxiln »

2020aj wrote: post #296
ploxiln wrote: post #237

I don't see any mention of the firmware and drivers efforts for this. Firmware and drivers always end up more difficult to deal with than expected. The Fairphone company was surprised by difficulties upgrading and patching android without support from their BSP vendor, causing many months delays of updates _and_ years shorter support life than they were planning for their earlier models. I purchased the Purism Librem…

Librem was geared towards openness/security, this just has a focus on repairability. Can Framework not just use off the shelf parts that already have the proper firmware/drivers available for windows/linux and then encounter none of the same issues? Or is the issue the interfaces b/w the modules and mainboard?

For desktop computers this is a lot easier, for laptops it's still not that easy. The motherboards are not just COTS "Asus z490 prime" or whatever, and you can't just include a nice standard USB mouse which requires no drivers. If you don't have a good plan for how you will ensure you have good motherboard firmware and touchpad drivers, then they won't turn out good.

Luckily it seems like Framework do have this well under control (somewhat quietly :)

Re: The Framework Laptop

#387

Post by elric »

andrewshadura wrote: post #349
nrp wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have both ANSI and ISO layouts, and we've designed the keyboard to be end-user replaceable. We'll be adding more keyboard languages as we expand into more countries. The clear keyboard shown in our product photos is actually real too! We'll be offering clear and blank for the people who want that.

Is the ISO layout an actual ISO, i.e. with an extra key between the left Shift and Z? By the way, I’d love to have a Trackpoint or an equivalent. Or a trackball.

Goodness I hope that key is there, I've had to jump through all sorts of hoops to type comfortably on keyboards that are missing this key.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#388

Post by 99_00 »

SloopJon wrote: post #33

One of the repair challenges is access to old parts. The drain hose on our three year-old washer sprung a leak. When I called a repair man, he at first said that Samsung doesn't make that part anymore. Fortunately, he was mistaken, but if that's something that happens for a simple hose, imagine trying to replace the "high-end headphone amp" expansion card on this laptop five years from now. Even if I'm not too excite…

>if that's something that happens for a simple hose

But it didn't happen...

Re: The Framework Laptop

#389

Post by elric »

alex_duf wrote: post #302

it seems like nrp is answering questions around here, so here's another one: will you be shipping to the UK and / or continental Europe? Edit: found the answer: "We're shipping in the US and Canada this summer and opening up additional countries in Europe and Asia before the end of the year"

I hope they'll be partnering with an EU distributor so it's easier to reclaim VAT and to avoid having to pay import taxes.

Re: The Framework Laptop

#390

Post by andrewflnr »

burlesona wrote: post #55

Well, HN will love this. Moddable laptop with a good webcam? Nice. But: - I really dislike the arrow keys not having the air gap above left and right. You’d think they’d learn that from the MacBook butterfly keyboard era. - it’s a little disingenuous to say “no adapters” when in fact their little expansion cards are merely adapters that insert into the chassis of the laptop. Only four I/O ports is a little tight (des…

It's not "disingenuous". Everyone knows they're talking about external dongles because those are the kind of adapter that's actually annoying. Complaining about their modules because they're implemented in terms of USB-C is the worst kind of technically true but semantically nonsensical nitpick, precisely because it takes a long comment like this to unpack it but only a few words to make it.
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