Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees • Hacker News Board

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#241

Post by azinman2 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

hpoe wrote: post #214

JPKab wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something that adds insult to injury is the amount of moral posturing Amazon engages in when it comes to social justice issues. What could be a bigger social justice issue than paying working class people proper wages and benefits? It just screams out to me how hollow and PR driven their support of social justice organizations and initiatives is. And more importantly, the silence from these same social justice initia…

Almost like identity politics is used by those in power to distract us from real issues that have concrete impact on people's lives, instead fostering an us vs them attitude to keep us ignorant that both sides are being played by the same people.

Or… they actually do mean what they say, but don’t connect the dots and ultimately have a bigger incentive to cognitively shift their perspective when it comes down to their own bottom line. Amazon as a company is about low prices made up by scale, and is famous for continuously optimizing costs. Humans are just one cost to optimize, and are likely a big one given the number of people involved for their business model. These are also not “corporate employees,” which are also infamously not treated well, but the grunts that are low skilled and highly replaceable.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#242

Post by phabora » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #67

faitswulff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon literally employs a union busting company from the last century (edit: from two centuries ago, apparently): > The Pinkerton National Detective Agency was founded as a private police force in Chicago in 1850, and quickly expanded its reach; its detectives initially focused on catching thieves and burglars, but soon became the bane of the labor movement for their work as enthusiastic, vicious strikebreakers. Thr…

When Teen Vogue calls someone a "billionaire vampire", is that a compliment, or are vampires out again?

The meaning is pretty straightforward to interpret.

Vampires suck blood.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#243

Post by mc32 » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #235

mc32 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. We need better labor laws. I just don’t like having a middle woman or man in there because they have other motives.

How do you get better labor laws without middle men groups lobbying? The same Amazon workers have neither the time nor energy themselves.

In SV parlance unions are rent seekers. They are a bandaid over the symptom not the cure.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#244

Post by willcipriano » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 5:59 PM UTC

fireball_blaze wrote: post #107

sodality2 wrote: post #2

Detailed, 6 step instructions on how to open a ballot and mark no? Thanks, amazon. This is almost as scummy as asking the city to change traffic lights so union organizers have a harder time talking to workers in between shifts. https://www.al.com/business/2021/02/jefferson-county-now-say...

Also reference Amazon's "Do it without dues" site: https://www.doitwithoutdues.com/

Interestingly it looks like it was made with squarespace, I'd assume they would have people in house for something like this.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#245

Post by Der_Einzige » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #67

faitswulff wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon literally employs a union busting company from the last century (edit: from two centuries ago, apparently): > The Pinkerton National Detective Agency was founded as a private police force in Chicago in 1850, and quickly expanded its reach; its detectives initially focused on catching thieves and burglars, but soon became the bane of the labor movement for their work as enthusiastic, vicious strikebreakers. Thr…

When Teen Vogue calls someone a "billionaire vampire", is that a compliment, or are vampires out again?

They call Bezos a vampire because he uses other peoples blood plasma to keep himself young and healthy.

He's a fking vampire.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#246

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 6:01 PM UTC

aspaceman wrote: post #211

gradys wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think there's any chance that this was actually what a majority of Californians wanted? You seem very confident that you know better what the voters wanted than they did. While differences in spending surely have some effect, spending isn't the only way to get the word out. I didn't measure, but I feel pretty confident that no more than 60% of the total communication about Prop 22 that I heard from any source…

Majority rule leads to tyranny of the minority. The majority, by definition, will be ignorant to some of the minority’s needs. You’ll note the issue of slavery wasn’t put to a public vote to outlaw it. It was still of a struggle to outlaw as it was.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#247

Post by mytailorisrich » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

Zealotux wrote: post #10

From a non-US point of view, this whole anti-union strategy from Amazon is somehow hilarious to witness on top of being sad. This kind of propaganda feels like its coming from another age, or dimension.

In Europe, at least in some countries, forming a union is a right and there is no need to organise a ballot so companies can do much less to prevent it but they obviously still do all they can.

As long as they act within the law it's fair game really because it's obviously not in a company's interest to have unions.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#248

Post by whoisjuan » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 6:02 PM UTC

A12-B wrote: post #220

whoisjuan wrote: post #167

This looks bad but companies with unions do this a lot. I remember seeing welcome packages for Delta Airlines employees where they tell them to not join the union and explaining why on their perspective is bad to do so. I'm not saying this is correct, but unions are rarely aligned with companies, so there is always going to be a perpetual fight between unions and companies that have them. You can't really expect Amaz…

They are quite literally not within their right to stop unionisation, as that is illegal. Also it looks bad because it is bad. btw, the line between 'disincentivising' and 'forcing' is decided arbitrarily by you. If they send text messages, block traffic lights, and screw with people's mailboxes, i think amazon crosses the line.

Definitely not illegal. You think Amazon, one of the largest companies in the world, will engage in any anti-union campaign without consulting their lawyers on what's right and what's not? It's ok if this is doesn't sit well on you. As I said in the parent comment, if unions were easy they wouldn't make sense.

Things companies that have unions or are dealing with unionization efforts can do [1]:

- Describe the good features of working for your company, such as existing benefits, job security and steady work.

- Remind them that signing union authorization cards doesn’t mean they must vote for the union.

- Inform them of the disadvantages of belonging to a union, such as the possibility of strikes, serving on picket lines, paying dues, fines and assessments.

- Explain the meaning of the phrases “dues checkoff” and “union shop.”

- Inform them of any prior experience you’ve had with unions and what facts you know about the particular union that’s trying to organize them.

- Tell your employees how their wages and benefits compare with other unionized and nonunionized companies with less desirable packages.

- Disclose the names of known gangsters or other undesirable elements who may be or have been active in the union, provided this is accurate information that can be verified by official sources.

- Inform them that, insofar as their status with the company is concerned, they are free to join or not to join any organization they choose.

- Express the hope that your employees vote against this or any union.

[1] https://www.thehrspecialist.com/14099/unions-in-the-spotligh...

Special emphasis on the last point. This is not me "arbitrarily" deciding anything. I don't even care that much about this. This is simply the other side of the coin. Companies can do this and therefore they do it. I have no personal feelings or strong opinions regarding unionization. I'm just showing the facts.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#249

Post by w0m » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 6:03 PM UTC

Dirlewanger wrote: post #51

sodality2 wrote: post #2

Detailed, 6 step instructions on how to open a ballot and mark no? Thanks, amazon. This is almost as scummy as asking the city to change traffic lights so union organizers have a harder time talking to workers in between shifts. https://www.al.com/business/2021/02/jefferson-county-now-say...

Unbelievable. This is petty shit you'd expect from 100+ years ago when companies were breaking strikes by killing people. Might as well rename this country to the Corporate States of America. No level of government has any backbone against the private sector.

That's a bit too far. Ignore unions; and amazon fixed traffic congestion leaving their complex. If a unionization effort is reliant on an unnecessary traffic jam to form - it's destined to fail.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#250

Post by yohannparis » Thu, Feb 25, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

arachnids wrote: post #208

balabaster wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what it means to live in a "right to work" state. I assume that means that everyone has a right to reasonably paid employment? I don't understand how this situation could come to be. What if there were no employers? That situation can only occur if there are enough jobs to maintain gainful employment of every citizen of the state. In such a situation I would likely only remain around as long as there was…

"Right to work" is American euphemism for your employer being able to fire you at will for no cause

It mostly means that you are not forced to be part of a union to work. Which is something I agree with. But I highly encourage people to be part of an union.