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Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

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Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#41

Post by dragonwriter »

phone8675309 wrote: post #17
maxehmookau wrote: post #3

Ugh, this is disgusting and so patronising. Edit: Also, why are "union avoidance consultants" a thing? The US needs to fix its culture around unions. That's absolutely wild.

Union Avoidance Consultants, historically, have been Pinkertons with machine guns that would not hesitate to gun down union leaders, so, if anything, this is a soft touch approach.

Amazon's union avoidance efforts involve Pinkertons; they haven't brought out machine guns yet. Though, to be fair, that's probably not kindness on Amazons part so much as a change in the legal environment since that was common.

https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-pinkerton-spies-worke...

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#42

Post by nabla9 »

Zealotux wrote: post #10

From a non-US point of view, this whole anti-union strategy from Amazon is somehow hilarious to witness on top of being sad. This kind of propaganda feels like its coming from another age, or dimension.

The sadness is build into the US labor laws.

The US has enterprise level bargaining (as does UK). In enterprise bargaining anything that helps workers hurts enterprises against their nonunionized competition. It's a bad system to have as a main method.

Most other countries have versions of sectoral bargaining system, sometimes with some national and enterprise level aspects. Once you understand the difference, it's easier to understand why in the US unions and enterprises have so bad relationship.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#43

Post by rtpg »

duxup wrote: post #31
sodality2 wrote: post #2

Detailed, 6 step instructions on how to open a ballot and mark no? Thanks, amazon. This is almost as scummy as asking the city to change traffic lights so union organizers have a harder time talking to workers in between shifts. https://www.al.com/business/2021/02/jefferson-county-now-say...

I got instructions from more than one party this past fall on how to fill out a ballot and mail it early and etc.

It wasn't your boss telling you how to do that though. The direct power imbalance is pretty different, I think.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#45

Post by duxup »

coolreader18 wrote: post #27
duxup wrote: post #8

Call me crazy but I think the employer should get to make their case too.

Read TFA - it's not just that Amazon is encouraging workers to vote no, they've set up mailboxes on-site that they're encouraging people to send their ballots with, making union organizers wary that Amazon is trying to keep tabs on who votes, even though it's supposed to be anonymous.

>making union organizers wary that Amazon is trying to keep tabs on who votes

I can understand being wary, but that's all it is, wary.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#46

Post by duxup »

tablespoon wrote: post #26
duxup wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't expect people to agree with their case, but they should get to make it.

> I don't expect people to agree with their case, but they should get to make it. Yeah, though the problem is that "case" is likely professionally polished FUD (if American Factory is any guide) hammered home in mandatory meeting after mandatory meeting. It's like if every voter was required to attend mandatory info sessions by Republican advocates for 20 hours in the two weeks before an election, while listening to…

Did they pay them for those meetings?

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#47

Post by nabilhat »

duxup wrote: post #8

Call me crazy but I think the employer should get to make their case too.

All employers are making their case at all times, throughout hiring, with pay rate consistency or discrepancy, communication, management, and culture. Union votes are an outcome of the case an employer has already made for themselves. Once the vote's on, it's going to be very difficult to refute the case they've been making for years.

Taking ownership of the failures that led to the conditions which created support for the union vote in a substantial, committed, and convincing fashion is hard, but potentially an effective way for employers to change the direction of the case they've made to employees.

Directly instructing employees to vote "no", lying about how unions work in their area, lying about the voting timeline, installing an easily surveillable special mailbox for union votes, and pressuring the government to alter traffic controls to prevent employees from being able to spend time outside the workplace during the union voting period - this is how Amazon has chosen to make their case.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#48

Post by duxup »

sodality2 wrote: post #39
duxup wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they told me exactly who I should vote for and why.

Hm. In my opinion that isn't as bad, but I can't put my finger on why. This is one reason: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26263866

I thought it was weird, but I can't imagine a basis for not allowing that.

Even if it was someone's boss... they too get to talk / have an opinion... even if I think it is wrong. I've certainly worked for employers who I thought had some very wrong ideas, I still did my own thing voting wise.

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#49

Post by Someone1234 »

minikites wrote: post #29
AlexandrB wrote: post #6

Amazon's tactics in response to unionizing efforts been extremely revealing. Even if unionizing fails, I'm happy that it forced Amazon to show us all the level of contempt they have for their workforce.

Every corporation has contempt for its workforce, it's why labor unions are so necessary.

It varies.

Not because some corporations are moral, but because happy workers are a good long-term strategy and many corporations are stuck with rolling short-term-ism. They reward the top tier on a three-ish year cycle, so executives only need to make the numbers go up for three years before exiting with a higher paying job and compensation via stock sales.

The US has a massive issue in general with rolling corporate pump & dump. The whole stock market basically encourages it. That's why we see things like customer retention strategies that actually reduce re-subscriptions and hurt the long term reputations remaining popular (because the short term matters more to executives than the long term, even if the company burns down after they leave).

Re: Amazon Sends ‘Vote No’ Instructions to Unionizing Employees

#50

Post by staticman2 »

duxup wrote: post #19
staticman2 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean you either believe in morality or you don't. If you feel Amazon management isn't moral, they should repent and change their behavior, not "make their case."

I don't think I understand what you're saying.

Imagine we lived in a world with moral consequences, perhaps the sort of world where evil people burn in hell or something like the twilight zone, where supernatural events strike down bad people, rather than the real world.

Lying to people to try to get them to vote against their economic interests seems the sort of thing that lands people in hell or haunted by an evil doll in such a universe.

"He's just making his case" doesn't really seem like sort of reasoning that would follow in a moral universe. The import thing is "is that case moral?"

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