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The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

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Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#61

Post by sriku »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #14
brainless wrote: post #6

This is what I personally feel is just missing these days. I was never part of the leading edge of hobby computing. I was very far off, geographically, growing up a teenager in India. But back then, 1998 - 2006 ish, I feel the Internet was a lot more about experiments. I would read up on some software or hardware group all the time. LUGs were way popular. I used to be on chat rooms from MIT or other unis every other…

I hear people saying this a lot, and I admit I sometimes think it myself. But I'm not sure how true it is, as opposed to just a perception. > Not even to the level that I, a curious teenager, had experienced in those years I think therein lies the rub. Teenagers curious about computers aren't very common. And even back then (early 2000s), my experience in Europe was the same [0]. Most of the people in my school didn'…

This looks spot on.as I understand, what you're saying is that folks curious about computers shouldn't expect others in general to be curious about them too, despite their ubiquity?

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#62

Post by G3n0t »

user-the-name wrote: post #51
8draco8 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Classic PC and even some laptops especially with open operating systems are still fantastic tool for learning and tinkering. There's just more options now for people that simply wants to consume media without thinking too much about everything else. PC enthusiast scene is getting bigger every year.

Learn what? Installing Linux on a computer doesn't really teach you anything much at all about computers. It teaches you about Linux .

Non sense. Linux makes many details about computers much more explicit than Windows does. Even installing Ubuntu teaches you something about how computers boot, what partitions are and file systems do. Linux also makes it easy to get started in programming on the OS level -- thanks to the Internet it is way easier to find information about how everything works.

So from a learning experience perspective, a kid tinkering with Linux might gain more insight into how computers work and than, say, on Windows or Mac.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#63

Post by Robotbeat »

exporectomy wrote: post #54
TheOtherHobbes wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's curiosity about computers - it's more general curiosity about how certain kinds of systems work. It isn't even about appliances and mass consumption. That's a relevant view, but not a very revealing one. Computers are an idealised example of an organised system which is assembled/operated by solving puzzles. Some people enjoy solving those kinds of puzzles. Most people don't. The first kind of pers…

Lots of technologies start out appealing to technologists until they mature enough to reach mainstream adoption. It's not disturbing, it's a sign that they were successful! Cars did the same, and aeroplanes, and electricity. I'm happy the internet is now as common and easy to use as electricity. Geeks can move on to the next interesting immature technology. Perhaps cryptocurrency or machine learning or whatever. The…

Cryptocurrency has now pretty solidly transitioned from hobbyist/enthusiast to monetization through centralization. Which is a little ironic but that’s how it goes.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#64

Post by krageon »

kuschku wrote: post #53
koonsolo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the negative outlook? The world now is way more awesome for hackers than it was back then! 1. You can find any information you want, in an instant. 2. Hardware is very cheap, computers can be tiny, you can order components from anywhere 3. Robotics and electronics are way cooler now, with drones etc. 4. Software development is way more productive with all the libraries and tools we have right now. 5. When I was a…

> 2. Hardware is very cheap, computers can be tiny, you can order components from anywhere In the past I could get any component I might need from a local store in 20 minutes. now I've got 2 weeks to 3 months turnaround on shipping from shenzhen.

I really miss hardware shops now that you pointed this out :(

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#65

Post by Robotbeat »

exporectomy wrote: post #56
shaan7 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But phones? I just can't be bothered to care about them. Can I make calls and check some maps? It's great! I understand where you are coming from, and it makes 100% sense if you own a PC/laptop as well. But guess what? In a lot of places the majority of population (including younger people) do NOT have them. Their first and only experience of computers is a mobile phone. Even though "teenagers who care about comput…

Is it really any more limiting? They can make programs in Scratch or other web apps on their phone. It's not "real" native software but it wasn't in the 1980's either. Kids then used BASIC interpreters. Compilers for "real" programming languages like C were unaffordable. Even assembly language and machine language were often inaccessible because computers didn't have an assembler or hex editor and you couldn't get ne…

You can’t use Scratch on your iPhone, and the built-in basic programming was far more “native” than any similar smartphone equivalent we have today. My TI-89 calculator remains way more programmable than my smartphone.

I’m not sure why it has become so common on HackerNews to defend this trend and/or pretend it’s not a trend.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#66

Post by imagine99 »

brainless wrote: post #55
koonsolo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the negative outlook? The world now is way more awesome for hackers than it was back then! 1. You can find any information you want, in an instant. 2. Hardware is very cheap, computers can be tiny, you can order components from anywhere 3. Robotics and electronics are way cooler now, with drones etc. 4. Software development is way more productive with all the libraries and tools we have right now. 5. When I was a…

Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about myself here. I am still an absolute curious fellow. I just started learning woodworking, I am 37 years old now. I start learning something new each year. I meant the current trend of digital products which are, in my opinion, more like a TV than "computers".

What, if any, resources did you use to learn woodworking? In-person courses and hackerspaces are not available in my area right now and I wonder if there are any good online classes. And by that I'm not talking about those quick-cut YouTube videos where you need a workshop worth 50k in machinery and tools to properly follow "this one easy trick" ;-)

If you have any resources you can share/recommend, I'd be very curious also ;-)

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#67

Post by bryanrasmussen »

vladvasiliu wrote: post #14
brainless wrote: post #6

This is what I personally feel is just missing these days. I was never part of the leading edge of hobby computing. I was very far off, geographically, growing up a teenager in India. But back then, 1998 - 2006 ish, I feel the Internet was a lot more about experiments. I would read up on some software or hardware group all the time. LUGs were way popular. I used to be on chat rooms from MIT or other unis every other…

I hear people saying this a lot, and I admit I sometimes think it myself. But I'm not sure how true it is, as opposed to just a perception. > Not even to the level that I, a curious teenager, had experienced in those years I think therein lies the rub. Teenagers curious about computers aren't very common. And even back then (early 2000s), my experience in Europe was the same [0]. Most of the people in my school didn'…

I think there is an other issue, which is that in the time when most of us got involved with computers they were devices in which almost anything could be done but hardly anything had been done, this attracted people who were explorer types, but also people who wanted something to be on the computer that there wasn't would be pushed to developing it themselves.

Now we live in an age where multiple versions of nearly everything seems to be available. Just buy what you want, don't learn to make it would seem to be the imperative of the day.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#68

Post by stavros »

kuschku wrote: post #53
koonsolo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the negative outlook? The world now is way more awesome for hackers than it was back then! 1. You can find any information you want, in an instant. 2. Hardware is very cheap, computers can be tiny, you can order components from anywhere 3. Robotics and electronics are way cooler now, with drones etc. 4. Software development is way more productive with all the libraries and tools we have right now. 5. When I was a…

> 2. Hardware is very cheap, computers can be tiny, you can order components from anywhere In the past I could get any component I might need from a local store in 20 minutes. now I've got 2 weeks to 3 months turnaround on shipping from shenzhen.

In the past, there were only enough components to fill a few shelves. Also, you can get many, many components from local stores now, if you're willing to pay the 4x-10x premium.

Not many people are, so local stores aren't as common.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#69

Post by technothrasher »

brainless wrote: post #55
koonsolo wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the negative outlook? The world now is way more awesome for hackers than it was back then! 1. You can find any information you want, in an instant. 2. Hardware is very cheap, computers can be tiny, you can order components from anywhere 3. Robotics and electronics are way cooler now, with drones etc. 4. Software development is way more productive with all the libraries and tools we have right now. 5. When I was a…

Don't get me wrong, I am not talking about myself here. I am still an absolute curious fellow. I just started learning woodworking, I am 37 years old now. I start learning something new each year. I meant the current trend of digital products which are, in my opinion, more like a TV than "computers".

I have also been disillusioned of late with the computing hobbies that have fueled me most of my life. I'm still heavily involved with computing for my employment, but there's just something that doesn't spark my curiosity as much as it used to.

Interesting that you mentioned you've moved to woodworking, as I found a way to rekindle my curiosity be exploring older technology as well. I've dived head first into antique clock and watch repair.

Re: The decline of computers as a general-purpose technology

#70

Post by ajsnigrutin »

brainless wrote: post #6

This is what I personally feel is just missing these days. I was never part of the leading edge of hobby computing. I was very far off, geographically, growing up a teenager in India. But back then, 1998 - 2006 ish, I feel the Internet was a lot more about experiments. I would read up on some software or hardware group all the time. LUGs were way popular. I used to be on chat rooms from MIT or other unis every other…

The percentage of people who tinkered and explored, and did all the fun stuff back then is probably still the same as now. But back then most of the "normal" people didn't use the internet at all, and now use it for youtube and facebook.
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