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The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

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Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#561

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I think this is really insightful. Misallocation of resources is what eventually brings down economies. There are lots of bright people around, but corruption can drain a lot of talent.

Perhaps the problem is that the government has too much of a role in allocating resources in our economy as it stands. Maybe the military-industrial complex had some cool things for the first couple decades of its existence, but as the decades went on, it became a rusty, slower version of its old self as bureaucratic creep and complacency set in. Now it seems hard to disrupt that, like what tends to happen in the non…

Lots of us would love to believe this, and yet what does the unrestrained private sector churn out? Ad networks, app addiction, gig economy, throwaway culture, urban sprawl, climate apathy... hardly a winner.

SpaceX is everyone's favourite private sector success story, but they're basically just a younger, leaner version of Lockheed— surviving off of NASA and doing what they're contracted to do.

I don't think the private sector is ever going to do ambitious things like build rail infrastructure all on its own, nor is the current PPP model necessarily the way either, but maybe there is some option out there to get things done which looks like the bakeoff that NASA held with CRS.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#562

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Communism does an even worse job of allocating resources.

Communism had a great many failings, but they did allocate a lot of money to infrastructure and science. But what real communism did isn't even relevant here, I'm pretty sure GP is talking about imaginary communism in the sense that anything that is good for the general population is somehow called communism in US politics.

I've never heard anyone call free markets communism.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#563

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> Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. Not to mention the F-16 itself, which the F-35 was meant to replace: 1972: RFP for prototypes 1974: Maiden flight of the first prototype 1975: Production begins 1980: The aircraft officially enters service

Lockheed is synonymous with Skunk Works ... the F-35 was a Lockheed project. I can guarantee a lot of the engineers who worked on those legendary aircraft also participated in the JSF.

Organizations change. I heard recently at Skunk Works the engineers were told by some bureaucrats that they couldn't change the skunk logo (they had a modified version for some project). It's like how Boeing used to be a great engineering organization and now isn't.

The sad thing is when a downturn happens those bureaucrats saying you can't change the logo will probably keep their jobs while the engineers who could probably be making pretty cool stuff if they had better leadership will be out of work.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#564

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It's more than just a jobs program too. It's a reelection plan for senators/house members. Look at what states and districts get these big DoD contracts and then look at what committees the congressmen/women are sitting on. They approve plans that benefit them then direct the funds right into their districts so they can campaign on it. I mean it's not the worst form of corruption but it's pretty shitty when you reali…

But imagine if we put people to work building useful stuff instead of useless stuff. Power grid infrastructure, new bridges, new rail lines, etc.

Grid infrastructure and rail lines jump to my mind often in these discussions.

I am reminded how we got existing rail line through much of the U.S. 19th century land acquisition for private parties who built that infrastructure is easy to spin as a travesty. In many cases it was blatant corruption. And the legacy lasts to this day. All of that land and infrastructure is still privately owned.

Fast forward to today. Is it right that the government should build infrastructure to compete with existing private businesses? Should they build and operate grocery stores? Automakers? ISPs? Textile factories?

There used to be some idea that the government should not compete with private industry. That idea is much murkier more recently.

But if you want to build public infrastructure to compete with the likes of Union Pacific, shouldn't you start by nationalizing the likes of Union Pacific?

See also USPS for more interesting examples of public vs private enterprise. Imagine that the USPS contracted local delivery and long-haul transfer. Imagine that a local mom and pop could bid on a local contract. Newspaper delivery bicycle contractors everywhere could double their money for little additional effort. Or FedEx/UPS/Amazon might really sharpen their pencils and win those contracts.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#565

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I keep seeing people say this. Maybe flying cars just don’t make sense? Wheels work really well when your engine dies. Have you seen people drive in 2d space? You want to add a z axis? What’s the efficiency of a small plane? Surely not better than a Prius. Edit: I looked it up and a Cessna gets ~15 mpg.

The reason you don't get flying cars, is the very same, you cant make a lot of other technology. People will want to invent the flying car parking house. And they kind of did - on the 11 of September 2001. You can not hand technology over a certain level to a infantile (nicer sound then retarded) species. Its that simple. Its already madness to allow wealthy citizens into space. Tesla and Amazon are one freight fligh…

>"...This seems to be the road we need to take..."

We who? You are more than welcome to starve in a desert. Just do not count on any companionship.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#566

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

I think your points are certainly common ones, but unfortunately they rely on three major misunderstandings. The first is that all the "cool shit" we built in the first half of the century was the low-hanging fruit of new scientific understandings and materials. It's not that we were smarter, it's nothing to do with toxicity, it's just that we exhausted most of what you can easily do with nuclear, steel, engines, etc…

Flying cars marry terrible airplanes with terrible cars. I’m not sure what would cause that general rule to be broken, but the demands of crash safety for cars add a lot of weight and weight is the killer negative metric for aircraft.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#567

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>>> The US subsidizes military costs for all of our allies. Speaking as one of those allies... not really. Often times US allies spend money they really don't want to in order to keep the US happy. Canada and the UK probably wouldn't have invaded Afghanistan if not for their obligations as US allies. That certainly wasn't cheap. Canada is soon to replace its fighter fleet. Will it buy to cheaper Saab Grippen? Or will…

This argument would be more persuasive if more countries actually met their recommended NATO spend. In reality it doesn't hold up to scrutiny. Take for instance Germany. The federal republic increased their spend to $63.8b last year but that's still a shortfall of ~$27b relative to what a 2% spend would be. Aggressive estimates (above official estimates) of the UK's (a similar sized ally) spending on Afghanistan in 2…

The "recommended NATO spend" is just another way the US is costing its allies money. Sure, in 2019 Germany only spent $50bn (1.3% of GDP). But if the hypothetical enemy is Russia with a military budget of $65bn, then what's the point of spending $80bn? Especially if you are in a treaty that ensures you don't have to defend yourself alone.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#568
post #457

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> Ancient civilizations managed to build incredible aqueduct systems, public buildings, etc. We've regressed. This feels like an extreme take. (Most) Every city in America has a functional clean water delivery network. Every city has electricity. Most cities have sewage. Most cities have very nice paved roads. This is billions of miles of pipes, wires, roads, bridges, dams... Billions. And you're comparing what the U…

Nitpick because I used to live there: the Memphis Pyramid, aside from being a miserable goddamned eyesore, is actually an arena. I think if anything that would make it more legible to a lot of ancient cultures, which also took sport seriously and invested heavily in their own venues for it. Bass Pro Shops just pays upkeep to put their logo on it, just like with every other stadium in the country - Camden Yards here i…

I believe the Memphis Pyramid used to be a basketball arena, but that was shut down a few years back, and now it just serves as a Bass Pro Shop storefront.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#569
post #191

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I just don't see the US fighting China or Russia in a direct, conventional weapons conflict. How does it not escalate?

It doesn't escalated because neither Moscow nor DC are willing to go nuclear over Tallinn while Beijing is overwhelmingly inferior in their nuclear capability compared to either.

I don't know that we have a good historical example to confirm that. I remain skeptical that we could have direct fighting between American and Russian/Chinese soldiers/aircraft/etc and somehow keep that in a box. The Cuban missile crisis was insanely tense, and no real shots were exchanged.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#570
post #263
post #73

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This may be a statement that the U.S militaries post-ww2 doctrine of air superiority is no longer viable. Large Battleships once had to face a similar reality that it was impossible to make them survivable if the enemy had air superiority. Drones are cheap, good missiles are 1/100th the price of an F-35. It's possible that aircraft will no longer be able to enter contested space without significant risks just as it w…

What replaces it? Loitering missile drones + a big expansion of satellite imagery?

In any major future conflict our satellites will be the first casualties. They won't be available for overhead imagery, communications, or navigation. So remote piloted drones will be useless. Loitering missiles will be important but only work against a limited set of targets.
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