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The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

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Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#341
I think I read that this generation of fighter requires a lot of rare earth materials?

I wonder, in light of a shifting geopolitical situation, if the next generation of fighter might be a stab at something the west can build completely independently on it's own materials?

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#342
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have always assumed this and the $500 toilet seats are just making room for black projects. There were no publicly visible budgets for the U2/F117 projects.

I had a friend who, many years ago, got a military contract to manufacture an item. I jokingly asked him if he was competing with $1200 hammers and $500 toilet seats and his response was "if you had any idea how much paperwork and red tape is involved in doing anything with the government you'd say that the $500 toilet seat was under-priced and the contractor probably lost money on every one."

that's my experience too.

Basically it's the same PITA when it comes to getting things countersigned, approved etc. for spending $200 in parts as it is for spending $2000 in parts. So might as well order in bulk.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#344
post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstand the purpose the F35- it is a jobs and pork program first and foremost, like SLS. It has the side benefit of keeping people trained to build this sort of thing, so SpaceX can hire them. We can build cool shit, but our government and most companies don't optimize for that.

I have always assumed this and the $500 toilet seats are just making room for black projects. There were no publicly visible budgets for the U2/F117 projects.

[deleted]

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#345

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, a while back I was interested "where does billions we spend on national defense actually go" and I came to the conclusion that the DoD is really just a giant jobs program. Ultimately I think the reason we don't have things like flying cars is that the private sector gets stuck in local maxima (such as getting people to click ads) and in the public sector it's very hard to have focused time-blocked short term goa…

I keep seeing people say this. Maybe flying cars just don’t make sense? Wheels work really well when your engine dies. Have you seen people drive in 2d space? You want to add a z axis? What’s the efficiency of a small plane? Surely not better than a Prius. Edit: I looked it up and a Cessna gets ~15 mpg.

The reason you don't get flying cars, is the very same, you cant make a lot of other technology. People will want to invent the flying car parking house. And they kind of did - on the 11 of September 2001. You can not hand technology over a certain level to a infantile (nicer sound then retarded) species. Its that simple.

Its already madness to allow wealthy citizens into space. Tesla and Amazon are one freight flight to space, filled with tungsten rods, away from becoming there own nation - with non-nuclear deterrence. That somebody - whoever it is, out there is getting humankinds tech progress to a grinding halt, is a blessing in disguise. We actually do not even get a honest discussion about the risks on this path.

Problem is though, we always scienced our way out of our problems with our volatile nature. Tap some energy here, create some fertilizer there, oversupply solves the problems we do not want to solve. Exponential supply for exponential unchecked demand.

Enter social tech- in theory we could limit ourselves, could curb our demands, could become starving monks in the desert, hypnotized by coloured lights playing across enchanted stones. This seems to be the road we need to take, for the other road to be traverse-able.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#346

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

What’s going on with all the Reddit level comments below your post? I think you bring up great points. This could be a case of low hanging fruit being picked. We are at the point where everything being added is just bells and whistles since the foundation has already been built.

Not sure, I accidentally started a flamewar! I wouldnt consider the atomic bomb low hanging fruit either, it took many different breakthroughs in nuclear physics and structural engineering to procure the isotopes.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#347
To quote Pierre Spray, one of the "Fighter Mafia" who had a hand in the design of the F-15 and drove the design of the F-16, the F-35 has been a massive success. What's not asked is "What is the mission of the F-35?" and in Spray's opinion the mission of the F-35 has been to drive funding to Lockheed.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#348

Why start with a clean slate and develop a new plane? If the F-16 is still working, why not start with its design and upgrade the avionics and software?

One reason would be the age of the airframes. Technically, why not? But at a certain point you will need to compleely rebuild the airframes, like completely down to the last bolt and rivet. Only to still have an old airframe, in some sense. So new aircraft it is. And developing new enngines, avionics and software to put them into a new, and most likely modernized airframe, is frightingly close to a completly new aircraft design. And will give people the oppertunity to add features as well. And of course, because common sense doens't play a role in military development and procuremt for anything more complex than a Hummvee. Looking at the proposed Humvee replacements so...

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#349

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

You misunderstand the purpose the F35- it is a jobs and pork program first and foremost, like SLS. It has the side benefit of keeping people trained to build this sort of thing, so SpaceX can hire them. We can build cool shit, but our government and most companies don't optimize for that.

This is a fun talking point, but the reality is more complex. The fact that jobs and multi-state payouts are leveraged to ensure programs have political staying power does not mean that the whole shebang is just a corporate / political handout.

It just seems to be what people say when these programs fail, but I don't hear this said about programs that have succeeded.

Re: The U.S. Air Force just admitted the F-35 stealth fighter has failed

#350

The saddest thing about all of this IMO is they have been working on this for 14 years, and how much money was spent/wasted? Now, read about Skunkworks - they were able to build the SR71 (without supercomputers) in less than half that time and for a fraction of the cost. This isn't just planes, this seems to be everything nowadays. Fission was discovered in 1938/1939 and we dropped two bombs on Japan in 1945. No chan…

Well we built two mRNA vaccines in less than a year. I'd call that pretty fucking awesome.

Technically the vaccine (at least the moderna one) was built in 48 hours. They had it prepared before they even had a sample of the virus. Chinese researchers uploaded the genetic sequence to the net and that was all moderna needed to build the vaccine. It was trials/testing/approval that took the rest of the time. Truly some mind-blowing stuff.
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