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Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

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Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#81

Post by 99_00 »

thereare5lights wrote: post #67
reedjosh wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I point out to him no American president can be sustained as a president if he doesn’t reflect the values of the United States, and so the idea I’m not going to speak out against what he’s doing in Hong Kong, what he’s doing with the Uighurs in western mountains of China, and Taiwan, trying to end the One China policy by making it forceful … I said, and, by the, he said, he – he gets it. Culturally there are differe…

> Wow... Biden's stance is essentially it's a cultural difference. This is a prime example of how taking specific cuts of quotes can lead to wildly misleading conclusions. This is what he actually said: "I point out to him no American president can be sustained as a president if he doesn’t reflect the values of the United States, and so the idea I’m not going to speak out against what he’s doing in Hong Kong, what he…

>And as you can see, he's saying that as POTUS, he must speak out against it because he is POTUS; that the US has different cultural norms than China and that we don't condone these things.

But what is he saying about China's cultural norms? Your statement doesn't contradict this statement:

> Wow... Biden's stance is essentially it's a cultural difference.

They are focusing on what Biden thinks are Chinese cultural norms, and you are focusing on what Biden thinks are American cultural norms. The two statements aren't contradictory but also aren't complete.

Ultimately the press should ask for clarification and Biden should clarify. We shouldn't have to interpret like this. To my knowledge that hasn't happened.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#82

Post by inglor_cz »

jonathannat wrote: post #49
abhinav22 wrote: post #2

Good to see a stand being taken. Hopefully allows for more pressure put on China to be more humane. Also I think there is too much us vs China going around - another war would be terrible, and even without a war, negative consequences could arise. One world should be the dream we aspire for.

[flagged]

One of our dirty secrets is that we in the West improved our own local environment by shipping off all the polluting industries to somewhere else, preferably overseas.

While all of your points are valid and I believe we should stop being deferential to China (including on topics like Taiwan), their pollution is our pollution, too, at least partly so.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#83

Post by 99_00 »

eschulz wrote: post #38
99_00 wrote: post #14

What's Biden's position on this issue?

It's a little hard to say, although he specifically addressed the matter last week at a town hall meeting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JptyShvF2E8

This needs followup from the press and clarification.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#84

Post by fullshark »

federona wrote: post #45
abhinav22 wrote: post #2

Good to see a stand being taken. Hopefully allows for more pressure put on China to be more humane. Also I think there is too much us vs China going around - another war would be terrible, and even without a war, negative consequences could arise. One world should be the dream we aspire for.

There is no way to avoid another Cold War. A hot war is impossible. I am glad that the Soviet Union ceased to exist. I will be glad with China being contained. I will also be glad in a multi-lateral world where America does not go unchecked and can be held up by others to its ideals.

Cold War already started years ago, the leadership in the west was just was too naive and arrogant to see it.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#85

Post by thesimon »

lixtra wrote: post #42
thesimon wrote: post #15

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

The labeling is not arbitrary but based in the UN definition: In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: - Killing members of the group; - Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; ... -Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; ... https://…

For which the Economist argues

> But if conventions are worded with unusual broadness, they must also be used with special care. Until now, America’s State Department had applied the “genocide” label only to mass slaughter, and even then it often hesitated, for fear that uttering the term would create an expectation that it would intervene. It did not call Rwanda’s genocide a genocide until it was practically over.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#86

Post by omginternets »

mcrae wrote: post #31
thesimon wrote: post #15

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

> It has forcibly sterilised some Uyghur women Forced sterilisation is a form of genocide [0] [0] https://asp.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/asp_docs/Publications/Compen...

It is neither necessary nor sufficient to meet the definition of genocide.

Forced sterilization with the intent of destroying a people, in whole or in part is a form of genocide, but that second part is required.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#87

Post by jonathannat »

neolog wrote: post #70
jonathannat wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you buy from another country, that country will need to burn fuel to make your products.

not all countries run mostly on coal.

before you say "but then we won't have enough production" good, maybe we should create less things based on coal. we have item shortages now, and the world hasn't ended.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#88

Post by jonathannat »

inglor_cz wrote: post #82
jonathannat wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

One of our dirty secrets is that we in the West improved our own local environment by shipping off all the polluting industries to somewhere else, preferably overseas. While all of your points are valid and I believe we should stop being deferential to China (including on topics like Taiwan), their pollution is our pollution, too, at least partly so.

china overproduces things and trade dumps on other countries because of local government quota and made-up numbers for GDP. that's not a country we want to produce goods for the long term. buying from democratic countries would be a good start

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#90

Post by 99_00 »

908B64B197 wrote: post #39
nickff wrote: post #4

Interesting that the parliament went ahead with a vote, from which the 'leadership' (cabinet) abstained; I wonder what's going on behind the scenes. >"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and almost all of his cabinet colleagues were absent for the vote. Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau was the only cabinet minister present. When it was his turn, he said he abstained "on behalf of the Government of Canada." "

Not surprising. The Trudeau family has always supported dictatorships, such as the Castro regime in Cuba. The son even went as far as calling Fidel "larger than life leader who served his people" [0] [0] https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/27/world/justin-trudeau-castro-e...

Pierre Trudeau, Justin Trudeau (18), and Alexandre Trudeau (16) had a vacation in China 1 year after the Tiananmen Square Massacre

https://www.thestar.com/news/world/2016/09/16/trudeaus-in-ti...

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