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Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

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Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#41

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

The problem with that article is that it focuses on parsing language in the context of similar words; genocide as a word was coined in 1944 with a focus on framing the Holocaust in the context of other historical attempts to wipe out a people.

It's explicitly important that genocide can't only be focused on murdering living people, because for the most part, you don't wipe out a race or group of people just by killing them.

Trying to scope genocide down to the simple act of murdering people is a bloody-minded case of exceptionalism that overlooks the ongoing attempts to commit genocide around the world by actively destroying cultures, their history, and severing the ties that future generations have to both of those.

It's also very easy to understand why folks have a hard time closing the gap; virtually every country in the world has some history of tribalism and violence that falls into the broad strokes of genocide, and several countries are still actively engaged in it; it's worth noting that taken in the context of Central and South American immigrants to the United States, a case could be made that the child separation policy is a genocidal act.

There is a reason why the definition of genocide in legal terms steps away from the dictionary definition of the word, and it's documented here -> https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

I would suggest that anyone that doesn't find each of the items of the formal definition of genocide from the U.N. listed below as horrifying as the first line, it's probably worthwhile to spend some time evaluating and learning about the impact policies and governments that have done this in recent history (post World War II) to understand why the scope of genocide can't be limited to murder.

Killing members of the group; Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#42

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

The labeling is not arbitrary but based in the UN definition:

In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

    - Killing members of the group;
    - Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
    ...
    -Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
    ...

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#43

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

The prime minister of canada declared that canada had conducted a genocide against the pre-european inhabitants of the continent. It looks like Louis Riel's Metis revolt in 1885 was the last [0] real battle or war. The genocide Canada has declared they conducted was also not a violent slaughtering of people. So I guess they are in good company with the Chinese as soft-genocidaires? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Yup, what China is doing isn't so different to what Canada has admitted it has done to its indigenous population, and is attempting to make amends for.

Part of making amends must be ensuring that vigilance is taken to prevent it from happening again.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#45

Good to see a stand being taken. Hopefully allows for more pressure put on China to be more humane. Also I think there is too much us vs China going around - another war would be terrible, and even without a war, negative consequences could arise. One world should be the dream we aspire for.

There is no way to avoid another Cold War. A hot war is impossible. I am glad that the Soviet Union ceased to exist. I will be glad with China being contained. I will also be glad in a multi-lateral world where America does not go unchecked and can be held up by others to its ideals.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#46

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

The prime minister of canada declared that canada had conducted a genocide against the pre-european inhabitants of the continent. It looks like Louis Riel's Metis revolt in 1885 was the last [0] real battle or war. The genocide Canada has declared they conducted was also not a violent slaughtering of people. So I guess they are in good company with the Chinese as soft-genocidaires? [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/…

Yes, we are. It is generally acknowledged by our various Governments at every level that Canada has a history of committing and supporting genocidal acts against indigenous peoples. It's not about the wars either; our residential school systems, ongoing issues with child separation policies across the country contribute to our ongoing complicity with this.

It turns out that when a country is built on genocide and disenfranchisement it's kind of hard to stop.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#47

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

I agree. Not only does it exaggerate the offense and water down a specific term, it also allows for the predictable digression: "it's not genocide, look at the US/Canada/etc trying to lie and vilify China!". That said, I'm not sure what alternative appropriately weighty term exists. Moreover, the US also does this internally all the time, with various political groups claiming genocide against various minority groups…

> ...“genocide” means killing a people

Killing a people doesn't necessarily mean killing individual people. Sterilization is killing a people.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#48

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

I think there is substantial evidence that organs are being removed from Uighurs while they are alive or are being killed for organ harvest. Depending on how much business the media organization does in China, it gets reported or not. I don't think China should get a pass because they only kill of the very annoying people or those with blood type matches.

https://www.ibanet.org/Article/NewDetail.aspx?ArticleUid=0D8...

https://www.businessinsider.com/china-harvesting-organs-of-u...

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#49

Good to see a stand being taken. Hopefully allows for more pressure put on China to be more humane. Also I think there is too much us vs China going around - another war would be terrible, and even without a war, negative consequences could arise. One world should be the dream we aspire for.

[flagged]

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#50
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's supported by the NDP, Greens, and Bloc as well. In fact, it was all Yay and Abstains.

None of those parties are the Cabinet, the face of Canada on the international stage, and the one China is looking at.

AFAICT from the way that China's diplomats engage with Canada, they don't seem to understand how Canada operates. While the PMO is powerful, it's not able to dictate how the judiciary operates or pass legislation without house/senate approval.

OIC notwithstanding, I guess. ;)

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