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Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

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Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#31

Post by mcrae »

thesimon wrote: post #15

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

> It has forcibly sterilised some Uyghur women

Forced sterilisation is a form of genocide [0]

[0] https://asp.icc-cpi.int/iccdocs/asp_docs/Publications/Compen...

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#32

Post by throwaway894345 »

thesimon wrote: post #15

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

I agree. Not only does it exaggerate the offense and water down a specific term, it also allows for the predictable digression: "it's not genocide, look at the US/Canada/etc trying to lie and vilify China!". That said, I'm not sure what alternative appropriately weighty term exists. Moreover, the US also does this internally all the time, with various political groups claiming genocide against various minority groups or else "concentration camps".

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#33

Post by sleepysysadmin »

The liberals abstained but the far left like the NDP and Greens and the centrist conservative party all voted in favour. Overall, they would be included in voting in favour but abstaining was just politics.

I think the reality is that it's not really genocide. It's not a holocaust in that sense. Rather than genocide, the reality is that it's Gulags. Communism basically can't function without some sort of forced labour. Vietnam has their "Rehab concentration camps", USSR had the gulags, North Korea has their concentration camps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pukchang_concentration_camp

It's not genocide exactly. The problem is that China can't give up their concentration camps.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#34

Post by dleslie »

AlexandrB wrote: post #28
thesimon wrote: post #15

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

> It has forcibly sterilised some Uyghur women. I think the Economist is being pedantic. The above, applied broadly, would "kill a people" within one generation.

It's not being pedantic; it's moving the goalposts. The UN's definition of genocide does not require death camps.

https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/genocide.shtml

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#35

Post by dvduval »

They have been relocating Uighurs to different parts of China. I've talked to a number of different friends who live in China about this. So it seems that at the end of the re-education, they reintroduced them at other locations so it likely limits their ability to organize.

because I've been studying Chinese and speaking with Chinese people online for the last few years, I've also met quite a few Uighurs who were studying English. They are fluent in Chinese plus a couple of other languages, and as best as I can tell, I have been reintroduced as they say. This is not a topic I was able to discuss with them, but they seems like nice people that were living a decent life.

Now what happened in the past and maybe what still continues to happen in these camps is surely something that will be discussed for years, and China will have a better reputation. I just study what's happening and I'm hoping that there will be some good that comes out of it too.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#36

Post by reducesuffering »

saeranv wrote: post #29
nickff wrote: post #4

Interesting that the parliament went ahead with a vote, from which the 'leadership' (cabinet) abstained; I wonder what's going on behind the scenes. >"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and almost all of his cabinet colleagues were absent for the vote. Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau was the only cabinet minister present. When it was his turn, he said he abstained "on behalf of the Government of Canada." "

I'm a huge Liberal supporter, but am disappointed by Trudeau's decision on this. I never thought I'd say this, but good for the Tories. The most generous interpretation I've heard is that Trudeau's government is currently engaged in highly sensitive talks with China regarding captured Canadians and couldn't afford to take a stance on this. Canada is part of the core UN group about to present a resolution in the UNHCR…

See the other comment https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26254381

It's obvious realpolitik, the actual hard decisions that have to be made in politics.

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#37

Post by rhodozelia »

thesimon wrote: post #15

I am not sure what term is apporopiate for the horrific treatment, but I found the Economist's point quite valid. > By the common understanding of the word, it is not. Just as “homicide” means killing a person and “suicide” means killing yourself, “genocide” means killing a people. China’s persecution of the Uyghurs is horrific: it has locked up perhaps 1m of them in prison camps, which it naturally mislabels “vocati…

The prime minister of canada declared that canada had conducted a genocide against the pre-european inhabitants of the continent. It looks like Louis Riel's Metis revolt in 1885 was the last [0] real battle or war. The genocide Canada has declared they conducted was also not a violent slaughtering of people. So I guess they are in good company with the Chinese as soft-genocidaires?

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_conflicts_in_North_Ame...

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#39

Post by 908B64B197 »

nickff wrote: post #4

Interesting that the parliament went ahead with a vote, from which the 'leadership' (cabinet) abstained; I wonder what's going on behind the scenes. >"Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and almost all of his cabinet colleagues were absent for the vote. Foreign Affairs Minister Marc Garneau was the only cabinet minister present. When it was his turn, he said he abstained "on behalf of the Government of Canada." "

Not surprising.

The Trudeau family has always supported dictatorships, such as the Castro regime in Cuba. The son even went as far as calling Fidel "larger than life leader who served his people" [0]

[0] https://www.cnn.com/2016/11/27/world/justin-trudeau-castro-e...

Re: Canada's parliament votes to label China's persecution of Uighurs as genocide

#40

Post by reducesuffering »

dleslie wrote: post #13
kareemm wrote: post #11

This is largely a (smart) political move by the opposition right-wing party. Canada is embroiled in a political issue with China right now. They're holding a Huawei exec named Meng Wanzhou at the request of the US, who are investigating Huawei for violating sanctions against China[1]. China retaliated by arresting two Canadians without apparent cause[2]. They're been in jail for two years. The Conservative party put…

It's supported by the NDP, Greens, and Bloc as well. In fact, it was all Yay and Abstains.

None of those parties are the Cabinet, the face of Canada on the international stage, and the one China is looking at.
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