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The unusual ways Western parents raise children

bbc.com

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Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#331

Post by dimitrios1 »

enobrev wrote: post #286
gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

I'm positive of two things in regards to being a parent (and a human): 1. I have no idea what I'm doing 2. Neither does anyone else.

and,

3. billions of parents have gotten through this before you, you will too.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#332

Post by asdfasgasdgasdg »

Grustaf wrote: post #266
asdfasgasdgasdg wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4781366/ Almost every study on breastfeeding will have a disclaimer like the one in this meta-analysis (or ought to if it doesn't). "Because almost all the data in this review were gathered from observational studies, one should not infer causality based on these findings. Also, there is a wide range of quality of the body of evidence across different health outcomes." I d…

The same is of course true for almost any long-term factor, yet most people would accept that e.g. getting an education boosts your earnings even without a randomized double blind study.

When there is a strong prior reason to believe one thing is better, we don't need too many studies to tell us it is so. If, a-posteriori, we saw that you couldn't tell too much difference between college graduates and not by looking at their income, or if you couldn't guess whether someone was EBF as a baby by their health status, you might start wondering if the effect sizes are really so large, despite your prior beliefs.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#333

Post by twiceinawhile »

gdubs wrote: post #171

One of the hardest thing about being a parent today is the constant shame and confusion about the “right” way to do it. We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t. There’s lots of wisdom in that way of life, and sure we could learn from it — but there’s enough anxiety as it is, parents don’t need more of it. We have three kids and we sleep trained them. (Not a pediatrician, standard disclaimer.…

> We don’t live in a hunter gatherer society anymore, we just don’t.

What you describe isn't a "hunter gatherer society" issue. It's an innate human/pre-human/primate issue. Throughout human existence and our pre-human ancestor's existence, the infant/baby is with the mother 24/7 for the first few months/years of its life. This is something that stretches back millions of years. We really don't know what effects separating the baby from the mother at such an early age does for its emotional, psychological, etc development. Not to mention the mother's emotional, psychological, etc well being and of course the mother-child bonding.

> The baby cried and cried and cried.

It would be shocking if it started to lecture you on the pros and cons of the modern geopolitical world order. That a baby cried is par for the course.

> Just raise your kids with love. Be compassionate, and patient.

Unless you need a good night's sleep? This is comes off as new age nonsense we just love in the US. It's trite and meaningless. Of course you raise it with love, it's your kid. Rather than the obvious, we should raise kids so that they are well prepared to compete and fend for themselves in the real world.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#334

Post by kube-system »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #222
kube-system wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that supposed to be egregious? I liked McDonalds as a kid too. You get a toy, after all. This is hardly going to harm a child: https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/meal/4-piece-chicken-mcnu...

I am genuinely surprised that this part of the equation is not more troubling to more parents. Yes, the toy is is part of the draw. The question is whether this is a good thing and/or a good habit. I think it is not.

I think that depends more on the parent than it does the restaurant. It is possible to fit fast food in to a healthy diet, just like it's also possible to eat fruits and vegetables in an unhealthy way[0]. A weekly treat sounds squarely within the realm of moderation to me... that's what, 5% of a weekly diet?

0: https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2019/11/12/malno...

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#335

Post by hackitup7 »

I highly recommend the book Cribsheet on this topic (https://www.amazon.com/Cribsheet-Data-Driven-Relaxed-Parenti...). The author is an economist at Brown and applies research techniques to determine where there are causal relationships between parental behavior and child outcomes.

For example, she looks into the research behind breastfeeding vs formula – a very hot topic where I already see the pitchforks coming out in this thread. Her conclusion if I'm recalling correctly is that there are only relatively minor direct benefits to breast milk over formula. But there are significant benefits to being the type of parent that is intense + dedicated enough to breast feed despite how unpleasant many mothers find it to be, and that dedication explains why studies turn up larger differences in outcomes between breastfed vs formula fed babies (it's just correlation vs causation).

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#336

Post by AnimalMuppet »

watwut wrote: post #324
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the kid, and depends on when. When you were one, you might have listened to "no", but there are plenty of kids who don't. And it matters because of things like wanting to play in the street. I can't tell a one-year-old what two tons of car moving at 30 miles an hour is going to do to them. But I can train them that every time they play in the street, it hurts. That sounds cruel. On the other hand, letting…

Have you ever met 1 years old? Cause this sounds like you did not and are just imagining things.

I have, yes - four of them, up close and in detail.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#337

Post by jjav »

munificent wrote: post #312
nix23 wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just raise your kids with love. Be compassionate, and patient. Right and i would add, give them as many time with you as possible. Some of my greatest memory's was strolling around my dad workplace, when he had work todo. Children's don't need parent's as entertainment, but as adventure preparers.

> give them as many time with you as possible. Children in the West today already spend more time with parents than at any point in the past: https://news.uci.edu/2016/09/28/todays-parents-spend-more-ti... Quality time with parents is important, of course, but we have become so focused on parental time that children are sacrificing solo time where they learn independence and initiative, and peer time where they learn…

> Children in the West today already spend more time with parents than at any point in the past

That's not what the article says. It compares to just 50 years ago, which is well into the industrialized world of two working parents in the office away from home.

Just a bit farther back, like with my grandparents era, kids grew up on the family farm, with their parents 24x7, learning by example from them.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#338

Post by NovaJehovah »

ramblerman wrote: post #327
NovaJehovah wrote: post #309

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'll probably get downvoted, but I strongly disagree with this mindset. Raising kids is not a fun hobby or a side project that will fit into a neat little drawer in your life. You have an obligation to do the best that you can. Yeah, it's hard. Yeah, it's stressful. Like it or not, that's what you signed up for. So step up. Like anything else in life, you can do a good job or a bad job at being a parent. If you're pr…

> Don't rationalize it with clichés like "love is all that matters" Counter data point. My wife is Argentinian. I'd say the values you see in her family primarily is "love does come first" and strict boundaries on kids. E.g. the adults are talking, go away. When I compare that to my own nieces and nephews, they have little boundaries, are quite lethargic and can be quite arrogant. Yet their parents would all describe…

I'm not trying to say there's one right way to do things. But there are a lot of plainly wrong ways.

If your parenting philosophy is not based on any research or learning about what's best for your child, but instead on what's easiest and most convenient for you, then you're probably doing it wrong. That doesn't mean you can't set boundaries for kids who are old enough to understand them.

I think the way we discard our elderly is closely tied to our self-absorbed approach to parenting. If you don't put in the time and are unwilling to make sacrifices for your kids, you shouldn't expect them to be there for you when you need it.

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#339

Post by JxLS-cpgbe0 »

rajin444 wrote: post #194
Dumblydorr wrote: post #136

The only thing I feel certain of is that hitting children or abusing them is a sad unnecessary practice. Adults need the wisdom and sense to handle problems with logic and words. Physical violence is simply bullying and using superior size and strength, which is irrelevant in the modern world and which predisposes your children to violent behaviors.

What makes you feel certain of this? I may be wrong, but a majority of human history seems to point to (roughly) "spanking is ok, anything more is not". Children do not understand logic the same as adults.

It creates child abuse apologists, like yourself

Re: The unusual ways Western parents raise children

#340

Post by Aunche »

One thing that I find weird about the Western (perhaps just American) way of raising kids is that the retired population is surprisingly uninvolved in the raising of their grandchildren. It seems like an economic inefficiency when parents are spending so much money on childcare while old people are feeling increasingly lonely.
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