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Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

blogs.nvidia.com

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Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#751

Post by unionpivo »

varispeed wrote: post #735
unionpivo wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that everybody wants to build on newest TSMC and maybe Samsung fabs. Apple outbid everyone (and given their budget, will continue to do so.), so the rest of them are fighting for whatever capacity is left. TSMC is expanding, but new factories take years to build. So the issue here is mostly the overreliance of whole world on TSMC and Samsung.

Yes, nVidia is not the only company with such unsustainable strategy. They wanted a shortcut and now they feel consequences.

Only Samsung and Intel have their own foundries and chip design. (outside microcontrollers )

Everybody else, is in the same boat as Nvidia. So this is the norm not the exception.

And NVidia is not in a mess, they are having record profits.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#752

Post by g051051 »

stale2002 wrote: post #750
g051051 wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are taking away my choice to use the hardware as I see fit. And are granting themselves the ability to alter the value of my purchase after the fact. What's to stop them from deciding to update the driver in 3 months to cut the hash rate to 25%? Sony did this with the PS3 when they retroactively removed the OtherOS capability years after purchase. They were sued over this and ultimately settled.

> They are taking away my choice to use the hardware as I see fit. No, they are simply selling you a product that you are voluntarily choosing to buy. You are perfectly within your right to not purchase something that you don't want. > And are granting themselves the ability to alter the value of my purchase after the fact. False. You seem to be unaware of whats going on. All of this stuff is being told to you ahead…

> No, they are simply selling you a product that you are voluntarily choosing to buy. You are perfectly within your right to not purchase something that you don't want.

No, they are imposing restrictions on use after it's purchased.

> False. You seem to be unaware of whats going on.

You seem to be deliberately misrepresenting the argument. No one is claiming that this has actually occurred yet with this product. However, this is their stated policy, that they will artificially restrict what owners of the product can do via software drivers. Since it's via drivers, they can update them to further modify the capabilities of the devices after purchase. They have already done this in the past, when they modified drivers to disable capabilities if they detected more than one display adapter present (also to try to limit use in crypto mining).

> Thats not what happened. No updates are out. Instead, this is about new hardware, that has not been sold to anyone yet. Nothing is being updated.

No one is claiming this is currently happening. But they have a history of trying to control what people do with their hardware after it's been released and sold. So nothing has been updated YET.

> This only applies to unreleased products, that you have the choice of not buying.

Yes, it's good they're announcing their intention to change the functionality of devices after they've been purchased.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#753

Post by stale2002 »

g051051 wrote: post #752
stale2002 wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They are taking away my choice to use the hardware as I see fit. No, they are simply selling you a product that you are voluntarily choosing to buy. You are perfectly within your right to not purchase something that you don't want. > And are granting themselves the ability to alter the value of my purchase after the fact. False. You seem to be unaware of whats going on. All of this stuff is being told to you ahead…

> No, they are simply selling you a product that you are voluntarily choosing to buy. You are perfectly within your right to not purchase something that you don't want. No, they are imposing restrictions on use after it's purchased. > False. You seem to be unaware of whats going on. You seem to be deliberately misrepresenting the argument. No one is claiming that this has actually occurred yet with this product. Howe…

> No, they are imposing restrictions on use after it's purchased.

No they do not! Nobody has any 3060s yet! The cards become pre-installed with this software. If you don't like this software, don't buy the card. It is not an update! It is pre-installed software that you can choose not to buy.

> No one is claiming that this has actually occurred yet with this product.

So then you agree that nothing has been changed after the fact. Got it, that is my point. The cards are not sold yet. And you are being told, ahead of time what software is on those cards.

If you don't like that software, don't buy it.

> they can update them to further modify the capabilities of the devices after purchase.

Nothing has been updated on these specific cards after the fact. The cards are not sold yet. This is just about unsold devices, that you can choose to buy or not buy.

> No one is claiming this is currently happening.

So then you agree that your device has not been limited after the fact, and that the drivers are pre-installed? Got it. Thats my point.

> their intention to change the functionality

No. It is pre-installed software, that comes on a device, before you purchase it.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#754

Post by ravi-delia »

TLightful wrote: post #733
ravi-delia wrote: post #728

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It matters to the extent that saying "environmental harm is a deliberate design choice of bitcoin" is false, rather than true.

And, again, my point is - it doesn't matter if it was a deliberate design choice or not. Enviromental harm is the reality of bitcoin. And should be on the addressable agenda.

I do have to say that environmental harm from bitcoin vs any other dumb thing people use computers for seems somewhat odd, but I'm happy to admit that I definitely haven't looked into it enough to argue. That's not what I was arguing though, I only ever commented to specifically refute that any environmental damage was deliberate, because it struck me as an especially absurd statement. I can totally see how it may have come across as an argument that because the harm wasn't deliberate it isn't bad, that was my bad. I should have made that more clear.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#755

Post by g051051 »

stale2002 wrote: post #753
g051051 wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they are simply selling you a product that you are voluntarily choosing to buy. You are perfectly within your right to not purchase something that you don't want. No, they are imposing restrictions on use after it's purchased. > False. You seem to be unaware of whats going on. You seem to be deliberately misrepresenting the argument. No one is claiming that this has actually occurred yet with this product. Howe…

> No, they are imposing restrictions on use after it's purchased. No they do not! Nobody has any 3060s yet! The cards become pre-installed with this software. If you don't like this software, don't buy the card. It is not an update! It is pre-installed software that you can choose not to buy. > No one is claiming that this has actually occurred yet with this product. So then you agree that nothing has been changed af…

> No they do not! Nobody has any 3060s yet! The cards become pre-installed with this software. If you don't like this software, don't buy the card. It is not an update! It is pre-installed software that you can choose not to buy.

The cards do not come preinstalled with drivers. Drivers are installed in the OS and are updated regularly while the hardware is in support.

You have a very odd obsession with future/past here. These are statements that Nvidia has made about their plans for this hardware. Unless they change their mind, they will do this. It doesn't matter that it hasn't actually happened yet, it's their stated policy for these cards, as well as something they've done in the past without warning. And even if you buy the card knowing that the hash rate is restricted, there are a myriad other uses that they can now arbitrarily restrict at their whim.

> No. It is pre-installed software, that comes on a device, before you purchase it.

No, it's software you install separately. Since the drivers are required to have the card function, you must install them, and they can be updated at will by the manufacturer to remove capabilities.

When you are buying this kind of hardware, you primarily look at the hardware specs to understand the capabilities. In this case, those specs can't be trusted, because Nvidia is deciding what sort of code you're allowed to run on hardware you've purchased.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#756

Post by [deleted] »

g051051 wrote: post #755
stale2002 wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they are imposing restrictions on use after it's purchased. No they do not! Nobody has any 3060s yet! The cards become pre-installed with this software. If you don't like this software, don't buy the card. It is not an update! It is pre-installed software that you can choose not to buy. > No one is claiming that this has actually occurred yet with this product. So then you agree that nothing has been changed af…

> No they do not! Nobody has any 3060s yet! The cards become pre-installed with this software. If you don't like this software, don't buy the card. It is not an update! It is pre-installed software that you can choose not to buy. The cards do not come preinstalled with drivers. Drivers are installed in the OS and are updated regularly while the hardware is in support. You have a very odd obsession with future/past he…

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#757

Post by stale2002 »

g051051 wrote: post #755
stale2002 wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, they are imposing restrictions on use after it's purchased. No they do not! Nobody has any 3060s yet! The cards become pre-installed with this software. If you don't like this software, don't buy the card. It is not an update! It is pre-installed software that you can choose not to buy. > No one is claiming that this has actually occurred yet with this product. So then you agree that nothing has been changed af…

> No they do not! Nobody has any 3060s yet! The cards become pre-installed with this software. If you don't like this software, don't buy the card. It is not an update! It is pre-installed software that you can choose not to buy. The cards do not come preinstalled with drivers. Drivers are installed in the OS and are updated regularly while the hardware is in support. You have a very odd obsession with future/past he…

> And even if you buy the card knowing that the hash rate is restricted, there are a myriad other uses that they can now arbitrarily restrict at their whim.

But this isn't about you being sold something, and then it being change later.

Instead, you are being sold something, knowing full well what software is available.

> Drivers are installed in the OS and are updated regularly while the hardware is in support.

I have misphrased things then. What I should have said, is that you are being sold these cards, and you know ahead of time, that it is only this software that is available.

That is very different from buying something, under the expectation that other software, that has already been released, can do certain things, and then that software changing.

You know full well what software is going to be available, and you voluntarily choose to buy it, given that knowledge.

That is extremely different than if I bought something, and was given software X, and then that software X turned into software Y later on.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#758

Post by g051051 »

stale2002 wrote: post #757
g051051 wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No they do not! Nobody has any 3060s yet! The cards become pre-installed with this software. If you don't like this software, don't buy the card. It is not an update! It is pre-installed software that you can choose not to buy. The cards do not come preinstalled with drivers. Drivers are installed in the OS and are updated regularly while the hardware is in support. You have a very odd obsession with future/past he…

> And even if you buy the card knowing that the hash rate is restricted, there are a myriad other uses that they can now arbitrarily restrict at their whim. But this isn't about you being sold something, and then it being change later. Instead, you are being sold something, knowing full well what software is available. > Drivers are installed in the OS and are updated regularly while the hardware is in support. I hav…

> Instead, you are being sold something, knowing full well what software is available.

Not really. Even if I buy a card and am content to live with the 50% reduction in hash rate (assuming that's why I wanted to buy it), Nvidia still has the ability to change the drivers and further restrict the hash rate at their whim.

> That is extremely different than if I bought something, and was given software X, and then that software X turned into software Y later on.

The problem is that we can't know if Software X will turn into Software Y later on. If I buy a card because it has certain specs, I expect to be able to exercise those capabilities. I don't think Nvidia should be able to try to restrict what I choose to do with those capabilities.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#759

Post by [deleted] »

g051051 wrote: post #758
stale2002 wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And even if you buy the card knowing that the hash rate is restricted, there are a myriad other uses that they can now arbitrarily restrict at their whim. But this isn't about you being sold something, and then it being change later. Instead, you are being sold something, knowing full well what software is available. > Drivers are installed in the OS and are updated regularly while the hardware is in support. I hav…

> Instead, you are being sold something, knowing full well what software is available. Not really. Even if I buy a card and am content to live with the 50% reduction in hash rate (assuming that's why I wanted to buy it), Nvidia still has the ability to change the drivers and further restrict the hash rate at their whim. > That is extremely different than if I bought something, and was given software X, and then that…

[deleted]

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#760

Post by astrange »

PragmaticPulp wrote: post #502
csa wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does Visa offer distributed consensus and verifiable transactions with no central trusted authority? Ok, I’ll bite. No, it doesn’t, but what is that actually useful for? The best answer I can come up with is illegal activities and libertarian fantasies. Even if one generously frames “illegal activities” in the context of financial freedom from a tyrannical regime, even that has limits. Any regime with a banking sys…

> I will add that if any government views a digital coin as a threat to their fiat currency system This fear is greatly exaggerated by people who have bought into the false idea that Bitcoin is the only way to escape inflation. The definition of inflation is that asset prices go up. You can escape inflation by simply buying assets, or basically anything other than cash. If someone truly believed massive inflation was…

> The definition of inflation is that asset prices go up.

The definition of inflation is typically that consumer prices go up due to there being "more money". The only kind of asset that people consume is housing, and even then they don't really - housing as an asset (purchase price) can be disconnected from its consumption price (rent). Besides that, you can't eat stocks so you don't get poorer when the price goes up.

Assets can actually increase in price because of deflation. For instance, technology getting cheaper has made all the stockbrokers drop their transaction fees and add fractional shares, so now everyone can bid up the same stocks.

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