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Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

blogs.nvidia.com

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Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#741

Post by stale2002 »

g051051 wrote: post #740
stale2002 wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, but it is not taking away something that you bought or anything. The specifications are known up front. You can choose not to buy something if you don't like the software on it.

> Ok, but it is not taking away something that you bought or anything. Yes, it is. The hardware has capabilities, and Nvidia is artificially limiting them in certain circumstances based on what they consider "acceptable" use.

> The hardware has capabilities, and Nvidia is artificially limiting them

But that is not taking anything away form you.

If you buy something, knowing what software is on that thing, you are getting what you were sold.

You were told that this would be the software on this device, and you bought it anyway.

Just don't buy something if you don't like what that product is. You were told what software is on that device!

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#742

Post by philjohn »

jki275 wrote: post #378
philjohn wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ignoring the masses of people who mine in their own homes - e.g. pool miners on places like nicehash.

If you're talking about bitcoin, most btc is mined in China by Bitmain and one other company.

No, not bitcoin, other crypto currencies, including monero, eth etc.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#743

Post by dboreham »

j3th9n wrote: post #669
dboreham wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lightning network is interesting, but what you say really isn't true in any practical sense.

Care to explain why not? Because it is true in every practical sense.

Because it really doesn't work -- one payment channel works, but that only allows balance reconciliation between two parties (which isn't terribly useful). Lightning aims to construct a routing network from individual channels and there is where things go awry. The channels on each side of a node must be kept in balance. That turns out to be non-trivial to achieve. Today there is no "visa scale" traffic on Lightning. So what you say is both questionable from a theoretical perspective, and certainly not proven in practice yet.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#744

Post by salawat »

varispeed wrote: post #130
asutekku wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it is not physically possible, this decision makes a lot of sense. Due to the global semiconductor shortage it simply is not possible to build more on the scale customers would like to.

The instrument to regulate that is called the price. You increase the price until there is a steady supply. That would help funding new fabs and in the long run increase the supply so that it could be available for a broader range of consumers. The way they do it is not sustainable. They will not generate enough money to pay for new manufacturing plants this way.

Technocally, the proper tool is "max units per buyer".

People who insist that prices are the only control point tend to be those most unfamiliar with the practical dimension of finite resource distribution.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#745

Post by kristjansson »

varispeed wrote: post #736
kristjansson wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unable to raise the money I think Nvidia could borrow or raise basically any amount of money if they had capital-intensive projects to invest in that would solve current or future supply constraints. Retained earnings are not the only way a company can invest in itself. The problem isn't capital, its fundamental inelasticity of supply for semiconductors. Fabs (or capacity in fabs) can't be spun up or down quickly,…

The problem is capital. Building your own fab is not something you can casually get funding for - there is a lot of risk and you looking for at least a decade before you could see any returns, if it succeeds at all - and you need to have the right money to get people who know this stuff and those people are scarce.

Right - so it makes sense that Nvidia wouldn’t do that, and instead pass that risk off, diversify across multiple vendors, and return earnings to their investors as dividend and buyback? And that the supply crunch is the result of global simultaneous supply and demand shocks that couldn’t have been foreseen in the timeframes required for them to have made investments to alleviate it, and aren’t likely to be repeated?

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#746

Post by kristjansson »

salawat wrote: post #744
varispeed wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The instrument to regulate that is called the price. You increase the price until there is a steady supply. That would help funding new fabs and in the long run increase the supply so that it could be available for a broader range of consumers. The way they do it is not sustainable. They will not generate enough money to pay for new manufacturing plants this way.

Technocally, the proper tool is "max units per buyer". People who insist that prices are the only control point tend to be those most unfamiliar with the practical dimension of finite resource distribution.

GPS units in consumer cards that disable if more than 4 are within a few meters of each other?

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#747

Post by jki275 »

derivagral wrote: post #708
jki275 wrote: post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re confused. They claim they are going to fork ETH to make a POS fork of it. Now the people claiming this are going to want you to believe that’s the “real” eth- but the miners may not agree. They have no incentive to do so. And yes, they can absolutely keep running the real chain and let the chips fall where they may. Given that course of action benefits them, and the other benefits Vitalik and his whale friends…

As a random user of ETH: I'm going to go to the PoS fork because of the (implied) fee difference. ~$50 for a wire is going to kill the chain (imho), and I don't see miners incentivized to handle that.

It's an interesting hope. I'm not sure that's going to fix anything.

Fees don't come from whether it's pow or pos, they come from volume and the need to prioritize transactions.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#748

Post by g051051 »

stale2002 wrote: post #741
g051051 wrote: post #740

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Ok, but it is not taking away something that you bought or anything. Yes, it is. The hardware has capabilities, and Nvidia is artificially limiting them in certain circumstances based on what they consider "acceptable" use.

> The hardware has capabilities, and Nvidia is artificially limiting them But that is not taking anything away form you. If you buy something, knowing what software is on that thing, you are getting what you were sold. You were told that this would be the software on this device, and you bought it anyway. Just don't buy something if you don't like what that product is. You were told what software is on that device!

They are taking away my choice to use the hardware as I see fit. And are granting themselves the ability to alter the value of my purchase after the fact. What's to stop them from deciding to update the driver in 3 months to cut the hash rate to 25%? Sony did this with the PS3 when they retroactively removed the OtherOS capability years after purchase. They were sued over this and ultimately settled.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#749

Post by jki275 »

philjohn wrote: post #742
jki275 wrote: post #378

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're talking about bitcoin, most btc is mined in China by Bitmain and one other company.

No, not bitcoin, other crypto currencies, including monero, eth etc.

Which is a quite different discussion.

Re: Nvidia announces mining GPUs, cuts the hash rate of RTX-3060 in half

#750

Post by stale2002 »

g051051 wrote: post #748
stale2002 wrote: post #741

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The hardware has capabilities, and Nvidia is artificially limiting them But that is not taking anything away form you. If you buy something, knowing what software is on that thing, you are getting what you were sold. You were told that this would be the software on this device, and you bought it anyway. Just don't buy something if you don't like what that product is. You were told what software is on that device!

They are taking away my choice to use the hardware as I see fit. And are granting themselves the ability to alter the value of my purchase after the fact. What's to stop them from deciding to update the driver in 3 months to cut the hash rate to 25%? Sony did this with the PS3 when they retroactively removed the OtherOS capability years after purchase. They were sued over this and ultimately settled.

> They are taking away my choice to use the hardware as I see fit.

No, they are simply selling you a product that you are voluntarily choosing to buy. You are perfectly within your right to not purchase something that you don't want.

> And are granting themselves the ability to alter the value of my purchase after the fact.

False. You seem to be unaware of whats going on. All of this stuff is being told to you ahead of time. Your software is not being modified after the fact.

You are simply buying a product, that comes pre-installed with certain software. If you don't like the software that is installed, up front, beforehand, then don't buy it.

Nothing is being modified after the fact.

> What's to stop them from deciding to update the driver

Thats not what happened. No updates are out. Instead, this is about new hardware, that has not been sold to anyone yet. Nothing is being updated.

> they were sued over this and ultimately settled.

Well then it is a good thing that nothing is being modified after it was purchased then isn't it? This only applies to unreleased products, that you have the choice of not buying.

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