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Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

ag.ny.gov

411–420 of 517 posts

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#411
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If everything is fine and dandy with them why are they stopping trading in NY? Why is the AG claiming they lied about reserves, the one thing they really-really shouldn't have been? (Insert "you had one job" meme.)

I didn’t write that everything is fine and dandy with them. The world toolset doesn't function under a “your either with us or against us” mentality, it functions as a gradient. That gradient is that the NY AG case showed Tether was functioning properly until 2017/2018. If you were around crypto at that point in time, you would know that people would not have believed they had full reserves ever. Just reread what I w…

They haven't "functioned properly" because they promised audits, transparency/openness and independence, and none of that happened even back then. They then found out that they can keep up the empty promises and started dipping into the sauce, and now finally one investigation caught up with them.

Your selective omissions imply advocacy - at least this is how it seems to me, and I'm not saying that's bad/good.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#412
post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I like btc but in a declaring that tether is fraud isn’t about building bridges, it is about being correct. Getting rid of tether is the best way to legitimize btc. The sooner the better. It is confusing why you care about bridges with regards to fraud. When was fraud related to consensus building activities? Huh?

I meant it as a figure of speech, in that the 2 parts can't see eye to eye. I care about the legitimacy of the space and I am not a big fan of these backed stable coins, because they can't be easily verified.

The same way the fascists and the democrats can't seem to unify?

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#413
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy the swiss franc. Or TIPS. or a commodities etf. or emerging markets etf as EM does well when dollar is weak. (their loans are dollar denominated)

The Swiss would appreciate if you did NOT buy Swiss francs as an inflation hedge. This kind of speculation hurts our export industry.

sorry :/ we just trust your government more than ours

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#414

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of their USD reserves were frozen by regulators in Poland and Portugal. It is debatable whether having funds frozen by regulators can be de accurately described as sustaining "massive financial losses". Sure, they could have been more transparent about what was going on. But so far, it seems that all their issues originate from regulators making it impossible for them to run a legitimate business, not fraudulent…

Your statements don't align with the claims in the article. It says they lost (as in, "where is it") almost a billion dollars and said they still had it, while knowing they didn't. Bad situation but honest: Legal. Bad situation but dishonest: Illegal.

The announcement by the Attorney General is quite biased and doesn't tell the full story. For a better understanding, I invite you to read the official settlement agreement[0] and Tether's (obviously biased) take on it[1]. It seems that Bitfinex funds were frozen by government agencies and that Tether temporarily provided a line of credit to Bitfinex while awaiting for the funds to be released. The line of credit was repaid in full as of January 2021, according to the settlement.

I'm not saying Bitfinex/Tether acted irreproachably, they surely could have been a bit more transparent about what was going on. But I have some empathy for them. They wouldn't have been put in that difficult situation if it weren't for the insanely restrictive regulatory environment that made it impossible for them to obtain banking relationships.

[0] https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/2021.02.17_-_settlemen...

[1] https://tether.to/tether-and-bitfinex-reach-settlement-with-...

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#415
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no way to transfer USDT into USD Use Kraken. You can change USDT to USD and withdraw money. I've done both.

This is the confusing part to me. Everything I read online talks about Tether being fraudulent. Shouldn't the price of Tether reflect a discount based on that? If it doesn't, does that mean the market is okay with a Tether being 1 USD even if it is not backed by anything?

Not necessarily because Tether the company will use the USD or similar that they have to buy tethers on the market if the price falls below $0.995 or so. The worry is if there are say 30bn tethers out there and they only have $20bn cash and enough people redeem the the price will stay about $1 until the $20bn runs out and then suddenly drop to not much.

It's actually possible that rather than just holding US$ against USDT they have put some into bitcoin instead which would mean they may have plenty of funds unless bitcoin crashes in an unfortunate way.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#416
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There's no way to transfer USDT into USD Use Kraken. You can change USDT to USD and withdraw money. I've done both.

This is the confusing part to me. Everything I read online talks about Tether being fraudulent. Shouldn't the price of Tether reflect a discount based on that? If it doesn't, does that mean the market is okay with a Tether being 1 USD even if it is not backed by anything?

At some point yesterday, BTC/USD pair was trading up to 400$ lower than the BTC/USDT, that should be enough to tell you that a lot of people don't really want the USDT anymore and were willing to pay a 400$ premium to get real USD, it will start getting ugly at some point

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stocks prices get negatively impacted by rising interest rates. With interest rates at ~0%, there's little money to be made in bonds, savings accounts, or anything that pays interest income, so people put money into stocks w/ the hope the stocks will go up. When interest rates go up to fight inflation, there's more incentive to put money into bond markets, which means there's not as much money going into stocks, whic…

What’s your recommendation for least-worse inflation hedge?

This is not financial advice. This is just a reflection of knowledge that has kept all my long term investments stable or growing through every dip and shift in the last 25 years.

- Stable index funds are the best long term hedge. (Date targeted mutual funds have largely been doing very well in the last 15+ years too.) - Then consider LONG TERM materials investments. - Then consider Treasury Inflation Protected Securities. - Then consider property, as in real estate.

Actually personally I'd drop the materials at this point. It's easier to screw up materials investments and they're often in stable funds anyway.

This is all long term, you'll note. I would argue there are no true short term hedges. There are bets against the market and that's often what you see in "hedge funds" that go relatively short term. But if you're in that space, well, you probably shouldn't even be having this discussion on Hacker News. I'm sure I'll take flack for that reinterpretation but it's important to be honest about these things, and many make money in this space by eschewing that honesty.

But, your basic goal of keeping your money valuable long term is not a hard problem, it's literally a solved problem and it's what the S&P 500 & similar indexes and/or TIPS exist for. If you think you need to hedge against the fall of the US or at least the USD? I think you should be hedging outside the financial system entirely, go full prepper, because, that's where that fatalistic logic will take you ultimately anyway.

Actually, with less snark, it is always reasonable to keep moderate term survival in mind. An actual major financial meltdown would likely be survivable with minor prepper-like approach to long term food and water stores, especially if you own property. So maybe move property up on your list if you are in a position to own it outright, and bury some water and long term preserves there as a bonus?

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#418

I'm so confused why everyone just blindly believes Tether is this whole big conspiracy. I am by no means defending the organization but let's just take a step back here: > Where does the funding come from to print tether? When they mint 1 Tether they sell it on an exchange for $1. They don't need anyone to upfront lock up $1 and then also sell it for $1... Are stablecoins not just essentially an interest free loan to…

> When they mint 1 Tether they sell it on an exchange for $1. They don't need anyone to upfront lock up $1 and then also sell it for $1...

According to the argument against Tether, your first principal here is wrong. In this argument, Tether mints a USDT and trades with someone who has bitcoin or other crypto and wants a stablecoin. What the trader believes they are getting is a coin which is 1:1 backed by USD. In this situation, it is not.

Tether gets bitcoin. Tether can then print more USDT which they trade for bitcoin at a higher price. They would then have an infinite money cheat for buying crypto assets (as long as people believe a USDT = $1) which enables them to drive the price of crypto upward.

Tether claims that the pattern is "Someone gives us USD, we give them Tether, they trade for whatever they want", this was provably false at some points in time.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#419
post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in a country with a highly functional banking system and no kleptocracy, Bitcoin is probably a bit puzzling unless you have family in Cuba. But it's not puzzling at all for those of us who live somewhere in the middle of the broad spectrum between Switzerland and Somalia, because most places have a little kleptocracy. Argentina is far from being "a failed state," but if you want to send US$500 abroad via…

This is the most cogent answer I've seen regarding BTC utility for those living under less stable regimes. Usually it's a hand-wavy "something something Venezuela something," which, as bad as Venezuela is, makes it seem like crypto is only really relevant in exceptional cases of instability. Thanks for the effort.

Venezuelan and bitcoin whitepaper lover here

I've posted several times that the adoption of bitcoin in venezuela is pure bull**

Is only used for corruption/drugs money laundering, more details onhttps://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25599693

So please, the fact that some venezuelan hners say they use bitcoin doesn't make bitcoin a real valid alternative and widely used

Venezuelans right now only care to protect against the 5000% yearly inflation and they do it with the dollar, they don't care _for now_ about dollar losing value when Bolivar loses 5000%

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another dumb question: If they've been buying assets like BTC using the USD that they were supposedly keeping as reserves, shouldn't they have made massive amounts of profits since 2018, and be in a position to now return the USD reserves so that it's 1:1, while keeping billions in profits for themselves?

If they haven't exited the BTC position, then selling the BTC to convert back into USD may not be possible without dramatically affecting the price. And if it's still in BTC and they don't bother converting back into USD until the last minute, then a run on USDT may make it impossible for them to convert enough BTC to USD fast enough to redeem USDT. It's hard to analyze Tether/Bitfinex's risks here because, well, the…

USDT has a market cap of $35bn, let's say that 30 percent is unbacked and the corresponding USD was used to buy BTC. That's a position of at least $11bn. It's probably worth more than that now, since the price went up after they supposedly bought in, but they only need to liquidate $11bn to return the USD to their reserves to make it 1:1 again.

The market cap for BTC is $1000bn. Wouldn't they easily be able to unload the position over a 1-3 month period without too much price impact? They own 1 percent of the market cap, and in the stock market we often see larget stockholders than this unload their whole position without a catastrophic impact.

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