Live data from Hacker News

Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

ag.ny.gov

351–360 of 517 posts

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#351
post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You make it sound like they have been taken down globally. That's not a "minor change".

How would the New York attorney general shut down the company globally? That doesn't make sense. But feel free to contact dang or other moderators and ask for a change of the title if you think that can be improved.

People here are from every part of the world. Many wont know what a "NYAG" is or what powers they have, in fact I bet quite a few Americans don't know either.

Oh well.. the new title is good.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#352
post #342
post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paper towels never lose value and pretty pegged to inflation. But seriously, look at the past 20 years and your takeaway should be that USD is indestructible and that the Fed can do no wrong. They ran the printing press day and night for years and struggled to hit 2% inflation. "Full Faith and Credit of the US Government" is evidently the best inflation hedge in the world.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-of-history_illusion

> In the long run, we're all dead

If you want to know where to stash your money in 2021, you look at history for lessons. USD will be completely worthless one day just like the sun will eventually burn off the surface of the Earth. I'm thinking back to financial crisis days when there were endless cries of runaway inflation being around the corner and that the Fed couldn't handle a crisis of this magnitude. And I think that looking back they handled it extremely well. They took a nuclear bomb to the chin and stayed standing.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#353
post #331
post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they process withdrawals in a reasonable time?

I have not had problems with them, but I'm also not doing any large transactions.

Also note Kraken, withdrawals are as fast as a wire transfer (so a few days): https://www.kraken.com/en-us/prices/usdt-tether-usd-price-ch...

What I'm not sure is how that market connects to Tether's bank accounts increasing or decreasing in holdings. This is all third-party exchanges, presumably with other customers as the counterparty.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree that Tether is likely a big fraud, but my point is that even the regulated financial system is full of questionable accounting and long-running, undiscovered fraud. Remember Bernie Madoff? His fraud lasted 17 years before falling apart. It would be nice if Tether eventually falls apart too, but the world will never run out of fraudsters and hucksters.

The innovation of Bitcoin is that it is a decentralized Ponzi scheme. Bernie Madoff's scheme fell apart because it was centralized, and so, once you arrested Madoff, it was over. The end. There's no one at the center of Bitcoin. There are big players, sure, but they are all replaceable. It's happened before and it will happen again. And each time one exchange or big player is arrested, shut down, or slinks away havin…

Almost every currency is a ponzi scheme - that does not only apply to crypto.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DAI is very cool. If you want to really blow your mind, check out RAI: https://stats.reflexer.finance/

Very interesting. I wonder how stable it will be vs USD over the long run. I am interested in someone making a CPI coin, that tracks some value of a basket of goods instead of another currency. I think that would be sort of the ultimate inflation hedge because ideally the value would not change at all over the long run.

The real question would be "how". A [crypto]asset backed by another currency is easy in principle: simply hold the currency to back it (and make sure you have some sort of transaction fee to cover your storage costs, and don't lie about it...). Same with a [crypto]asset backed by oil or metals. But CPI goods include many goods which are either perishable or lose value over time, and the composition of actual CPI baskets changes over time so you can't do that.

In the absence of that backing you can create a purely synthetic asset that can only track CPI if you've got the ability to withdraw significant quantities from circulation every time the value starts to drop. (That's sort of what central banks do with targeting a fixed non-zero rate of CPI inflation. But they have an economy built on debt so the money supply can contract organically by debts being repaid faster than new debts are issued. This is less troubling for the future of a coin than alternative strategies like having to use VC/company funds to buy back coins, or making a percentage of coins disappear)

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article: > Bitfinex and Tether recklessly and unlawfully covered-up massive financial losses to keep their scheme going and protect their bottom lines,” said Attorney General James. “Tether’s claims that its virtual currency was fully backed by U.S. dollars at all times was a lie Are you claiming this is false and they paid the 18.5m penalty for not lying about USD reserves?

Part of their USD reserves were frozen by regulators in Poland and Portugal. It is debatable whether having funds frozen by regulators can be de accurately described as sustaining "massive financial losses". Sure, they could have been more transparent about what was going on. But so far, it seems that all their issues originate from regulators making it impossible for them to run a legitimate business, not fraudulent…

Your statements don't align with the claims in the article. It says they lost (as in, "where is it") almost a billion dollars and said they still had it, while knowing they didn't.

Bad situation but honest: Legal. Bad situation but dishonest: Illegal.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This statement, minus the political content, sounds very, very, very similar to what I was hearing about tech stocks a bit over 20 years ago, and houses about 15 years ago. Maybe that means something, maybe it doesn't. If I had some way of knowing, I'd have a lot more money than I am now. It's worth remembering, though, that prices are just that: prices. Nothing more, nothing less.

Yeah me too - I remember when AMZN was $2. I remember when AAPL was 28 cents (before splits, etc). I remember when the Internet had a host of pundits proclaiming it was a dying fad in 2001. And most anyone who bought a house at the peak of the bubble is doing quite well if they still have it today.

Are you familiar with the concept of survivorship bias?

It's an important concept to remember when talking about the long term outcomes from adverse market events. "If they still have it today," for example, is a useful qualifier, because it subtly renders the statement almost tautological. "Sure, it was a bloodbath, but all the people who survived seem to be doing OK."

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#358
post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I'm not talking about system failure, primarily; I'm talking about day-to-day life for somewhere between one third and two thirds of people, most of whom aren't using Bitcoin yet.

Is it practical to use Bitcoin for day to day life for one to two thirds of people if the transaction fee is now $24? The Bitcoin blockchain itself is limited to 7 transactions per second. With 7 billion people using it, that mean each person doesn’t get one transaction per day, they get one transaction per billion seconds (over 31 years). It’s useful for rare cross-border transactions for a small portion of the worl…

> Is it practical to use Bitcoin for day to day life for one to two thirds of people if the transaction fee is now $24?

Yes, but the transaction fee is typically about US$15 these days, down to US$5 or so if it's the kind of thing you can wait 24 hours for. This is about the same cost as Western Union. Today there's a lot of trade volume as people panic, but the latest block https://blockchain.coinmarketcap.com/block/bitcoin/671850 contains fees ranging from .023 mBTC, with a bunch of transactions paying .042 mBTC up to 58.7 mBTC. The block reward including fees was 7763 mBTC, of which 6250 mBTC is the mining bounty and the other 1513 mBTC is transaction fees for the 2900 transactions in that block, a mean of 0.52 mBTC. The median transaction in that block paid .341 mBTC:

https://btc.com/00000000000000000000476ab57eea9be8ada36e2680...

The recommended fees from earn.com (previously blockchain.info) are currently 102 satoshis per byte for immediate inclusion and 88 satoshis per byte for inclusion within the hour, but this .341 mBTC median from the last block is generally 140 satoshis per byte.

https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/api/v1/fees/recommended

In dollars at US$50/mBTC, this means that the latest block included transactions that paid as little as US$1.15 and as much as US$2935 (!!!), and a whole bunch of transactions that paid US$2.10, but the mean is US$26 and the median is US$17. That means about 1400 of those 2900 transactions paid less than US$17.

But yeah, this is not what you want to use to pay for a can of Red Bull or even a restaurant dinner. It's more like Western Union or US$100 bills or gold. For example the current underground market spread for dollars is AR$142 buy, AR$147 sell, which is a price you will not get for small bills like US$20:

https://preciodolarblue.com.ar/

In effect every time you buy US$100 for savings from one of the "blue market" currency dealers (travel agencies and the like) you are paying half that spread, AR$250 or US$1.70, to the money changer. 1.7%. The break-even point where this is more expensive than the Bitcoin transaction fee is US$16000 for a US$26 fee, US$10000 for a US$17 fee, US$1200 for a US$2.10 fee, or US$700 for a US$1.70 fee. And, as you point out, lots of Bitcoin transactions happen inside of a single vendor platform like Coinbase and so don't pay the fee at all.

Usually cashing out your savings so you can buy a car or pay the rent or buy food or whatever is an every-month or every-few-months kind of thing. But you're still buying food on a day-to-day basis.

Even if you're using Bitcoin in an ATM-like fashion, paying a fee of US$15 or so every time you withdraw US$200, it's in the "everyday financial bad decisions" category, not the "totally impractical" category. (I hear ATM fees are a lot lower than that in the US now. Sadly, not in Argentina.)

Early on I avoided Bitcoin because I worried it might destroy civilization—after all, I rely on public streets, the public education of the people around me, and the public hospitals, not to mention the police, all funded by tax dollars. And there's been a cogent argument since Tim May presented his manifesto at Hackers (01991? Certainly before early 01993, when I read it) that cryptocurrencies would inevitably kneecap taxation and thus cause the collapse of governments.

But the US election in 02016 made it clear that civilization is doing a perfectly fine job of destroying itself before losing any significant taxability to Bitcoin or other cryptocurrencies, and the best we can hope for is to salvage its crown jewels from the rubble.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#359

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've tried, six months on they are still stringing me along saying we'll get back to you. As far as I know tether only allowed a few crypto "king makers" to redeem tether, and even then, only at a very small scale.

Several exchanges list USDT/USD pair.

"A market currently exists, is currently liquid, and currently trades 1 USDT:1 USD" is not a universal truth that will hold in perpetuity.

Re: Bitfinex and Tether required to end all trading activity with New Yorkers

#360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On top of that, any asset for which demand comes mostly from being an "inflation hedge" is a bad inflation hedge since prices will rise when people want more inflation hedging and drop when they want less hedging, meaning the majority of people inflation hedging will buy high and sell low. Gold has had that dynamic for a long time, which is one reason it is not considered a good investment most of the time. Buy asset…

Could that make such inflation hedges a good pre-inflation hedge? For example buying gold with the expectation that people will soon want more hedging than they do now, though this relies on getting in earlier than others.

Yes, but at that point, you should just borrow money, and do something useful with it, because being in debt is a simple, straightforward inflation hedge.
Post reply on HN