I moved to Singapore • Hacker News Board

Re: I moved to Singapore

#211

Post by kokatoo » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 4:11 AM UTC

bluedanieru wrote: post #200

kokatoo wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok if you want to go into such legal details I will try to accomodate. When I talked about possession of drugs, I am referring to possession of drugs for your own consumption and not for sale (or caught during drug trafficking). Check this out: http://www.mha.gov.sg/basic_content.aspx?pageid=74 (Search for "possesion") One of my recruit was caught with possession of drugs and I was ordered to escort him to court and…

It's not "legal details." It's mandatory death sentence for possession. And possession, regardless of the amount involved, is not proof of intent to sell. (And proof of intent to sell is not equivalent to actual sale, either, not to mention that such extreme separation of sale and possession is ridiculous.) In Singapore, you can die for possessing a key to a residence with drugs inside. In fact, if convicted, the law…

To ease your fear further, this is quoted from the Ministry of Home Affairs website I showed earlier: "Furthermore, if the accused can prove to the court that he is a chronic abuser and would therefore need to be in possession of a greater amount of drugs for his own consumption, the trafficking charge may be reduced to one of possession of a controlled drug, which does not attract the death penalty."

But then I do agree with the possibilities of a wrongful conviction. I am not a proponent of the death penalty myself but neither do I disagree with it at the same time. What I hope to do is to clear the exaggerated misinformation people have about Singapore.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#212

Post by RobertL » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 4:38 AM UTC

This is a very good idea my friend. I may be following soon.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#213

Post by RobertL » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 4:44 AM UTC

bluedanieru wrote: post #179

cletus wrote: post #122

I love Singapore, except for the climate, which is oppressive. There is amazing hawker (street) food everywhere and, thanks for strict enforcement of health regulations, it's pretty cheap too. At least it was. It's been a few years since I was there. I kinda view Singapore as the Zurich of Asia. Zurich (and Switzerland in general) is very regulated (although Singapore more than Zurich; there are no rules against chew…

It's not the rules that keep me out of Singapore it's the disproportionate response for breaking them. I don't mind if a place I'm visiting doesn't want me to chew gum or has a law about flushing the toilet, and I think for both of these the punishment is (high) fines so it's only money. But death penalty for drug possession? Count me out. Not that I would bring drugs there, but in any civilized nation the worst thin…

USA would be a much better place if it also had the death penalty for drug possession. Singapore is mostly Chinese and their obsession with illegal drugs goes back to the "Opium War" fought in the 1840's. Over the top for sure but "it works".

Re: I moved to Singapore

#214

Post by inkaudio » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 4:52 AM UTC

brisance wrote: post #128

kristofferR wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to visit with an open mind when you would risk several years in prison for doing what you would at home. Capital punishment is required for being in the company with someone possessing a small amount of weed. "Obscene material" gives you prison up to three months, 21 years if you make it avaliable to someone under 21. If you watch the movie Milk with someone under 21 years old, you risk 21 years in prison.…

>>Capital punishment is required for being in the company with someone possessing a small amount of weed. Capital punishment is meted out to persons who possess or have reasonable knowledge of someone who possesses or deals in drugs. Do I agree with it? No. But it's very far from your claim. There is due process of law. >>All members of Jehovas Witnesses were imprisioned in 2004. The reason for this is because Singap…

You are absolutely wrong, they are for a fact imprisoned. Read : http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2008/108423.htm Search for Jehovah witness. Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovahs_Witness... search for Singapore.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#215

Post by brisance » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 6:11 AM UTC

inkaudio wrote: post #214

brisance wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>Capital punishment is required for being in the company with someone possessing a small amount of weed. Capital punishment is meted out to persons who possess or have reasonable knowledge of someone who possesses or deals in drugs. Do I agree with it? No. But it's very far from your claim. There is due process of law. >>All members of Jehovas Witnesses were imprisioned in 2004. The reason for this is because Singap…

You are absolutely wrong, they are for a fact imprisoned. Read : http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2008/108423.htm Search for Jehovah witness. Also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Jehovahs_Witness... search for Singapore.

And I've personally observed these Jehovah's Witnesses in the grounds of detention barracks. Let me ask you then: what would you do to apply the conscription law equally? There is no "escape clause" even for sons of state officials. All males have to go through it and the citizenry have come to see it as a rite of passage.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#216

Post by jstewart » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 7:40 AM UTC

drinian wrote: post #181

ido wrote: post #70

Race: Caucasian Maybe it's cultural bias, but I was really surprised they'd list something like that on an ID card!

Singapore's position on race is difficult to characterize. This is what I've heard: Most Singaporeans live in government-owned housing blocks. The distribution of the races within each housing block is roughly the same as in Singapore as a whole. Within these blocks, you are only allowed to sell your apartment to another person of the same race as yourself. Officially this is to promote "racial harmony." That's proba…

"I've also been told that your second language in school (which is taught in English, a neutral language) is determined by your race: Mandarin for Chinese, Malay for Malaysians, and Tamil (!) for Indians."

Remember though that Singapore is bilingual, so the "second language" will be the primary language spoken at home (although some Chinese may speak Hokkien or another dialect instead, and many families speak mainly English).

Roughly around 60% of Indians in Singapore are Tamil (mostly from Tamil Nadu, Malaysia, and Sri Lanka), so that could be one reason the government chose Tamil as the "second language" of Singaporean Indians.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#217

Post by flocial » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 8:01 AM UTC

At least Singapore's upfront about it. America has a shameful proportion of its population incarcerated and what of the Department of Homeland Security and other agencies encroaching on your liberties? Or how the TSA strips you with a more radiation than Fukushima just to travel?

Of course, there are valid critiques of Singaporean society in the comments but for the average person these draconian laws might be minor trade offs for a safer, cleaner urban life.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#218

Post by louislouis » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 8:05 AM UTC

sivers wrote: post #117

louislouis wrote: post #18

Did you ever consider Hong Kong as one of your possible locations to migrate to? And what made you decide against it?

It was near the top of the list, but failed on two big counts: (1) - the air (2) - Cantonese I've already been studying Mandarin slowly for a couple years, and though I've heard I could have "gotten by" with English and Mandarin, I really wanted to just focus on Mandarin + simplified Chinese. But mostly it was the air. :-)

I've been in HK for the past 2.5 years. The air isn't too bad. For example today, sunny and clear skies. I think it would only have a measurable effect on health if you were to live here 30+ years. I would say in any given week, maybe 1-2 days it's slightly smoggy here.

Singapore is a good choice though. I've also considered it. Some may complain about the hot/humid tropical climate all year round but I like that. It's also the most racially diverse country I've visited. Given your wife is Indian she will have an easier time settling in there than in HK where it's predominantly Chinese but with a huge expat crowd on the island side. Cantonese is not necessary here, you could get by without a single word really as most people speak English and Mandarin here. There is probably more chance of getting some Mandarin practice in too than in SG where they speak a variety of Chinese dialects.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#219

Post by danssig » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 8:28 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #122

I love Singapore, except for the climate, which is oppressive. There is amazing hawker (street) food everywhere and, thanks for strict enforcement of health regulations, it's pretty cheap too. At least it was. It's been a few years since I was there. I kinda view Singapore as the Zurich of Asia. Zurich (and Switzerland in general) is very regulated (although Singapore more than Zurich; there are no rules against chew…

>to have to register with the government every time you move

Well, the US keeps track of where you are based on tax returns. The difference is that in Switzerland I'm somewhere on a map and if I move I show up in a new place on the map the day I move there. In the US I'll still be where I was until tax returns come in, at which point everyone's location is updated. It's like a population status screen where Switzerland has a real-time refresh rate and the US has up to 1 year lag time.

>and, by extension, the US

No, not by extension the US. He probably mentioned this specifically because he saw you were American. Brits take particular delight in telling us yanks about how they don't have any constitution that outlines what their rights are.

>differences between English speaking and non English speaking developed nations.

Again, these are some pretty broad strokes. A Swiss friend of mine pointed out the difference between Germany and Switzerland is that for Germany the people are there to serve the government, while in Switzerland it is the other way around (and that's a broad statement of itself, but there are fundamental difference between the two. See tax rates). So the demarcation is not English/non-English.

>is the importance of face time at work.

I have yet to find a place where this wasn't the case. Perhaps it's more extreme in Asia but every place I've ever been has it. Personally I think "face time" is more about tradition than culture. The internet has created new ways of providing value and not everyone has caught up yet.

Re: I moved to Singapore

#220

Post by danssig » Mon, Jun 06, 2011, 8:43 AM UTC

cletus wrote: post #152

Daniel14 wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live near Zurich but don't perceive the rules to be anywhere near as strict as you described, and would certainly not talk about "being told what to do" by the state. In Singapur, there are lots of laws unimaginable in Switzerland (for example, it's forbidden to smoke in public, you go to jail for speeding/driving while drunk, spitting or chewing gum, you'll t get killed for possessing drugs...). In Switzerland, wh…

Well, in all fairness, Switzerland is much like Monaco, Beverly Hills and certain Carribean islands in that its poverty is essentially exported. Switzerland makes it very difficult to become a citizen unless you're born to at least one Swiss parent or you marry a Swiss citizen (there are people whose families have been living in Switzerland since the 20s who can't become citizens). There are a large contingent of wor…

>First you have to buy Zurisache (sp?) for like 2 CHF each. Throwing them out in anything else can get you fined.

Depends on the Kanton.

>Then you have to separate your trash into three different types of glass (white, brown, green), other recyclables and non-recyclables.

Depends on the Kanton and possibly even the city. When I first came here we just had one sack for everything and didn't have to buy the bags.

It has changed now, but we have this in the US too. Sure, if you live out in the sticks you can pile your trash as high as the trees or even burn if it you like. There are a lot of places where you have to buy trash bags, etc. and how tidy you have to keep your property depends on zoning. I knew a guy who got fined because he didn't mow his lawn enough.

>The anmelden/abmelden (registration) system, which is the norm on mainland Europe, is extremely weird

It's not weird. It's an upfront and efficient version of what we have in the US. In the US most people don't know their location is tracked when the file returns. Most people probably don't know that the government can look in their bank account either.

>Some cantons also prohibited "excessive noise" or work on Sundays (for the entire day).

The interesting thing about Switzerland is that much of the law is actually voted on by the people. These noise laws are there because the people wished it so. We have noise laws in the US as well in certain places but not because a majority of the people effected voted for them.